Changing transmission fluid

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:


The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

I just love folks that say this or that says this or that and fail to provide any verifiable source to backup their for what I can only call unsubstantiated statements and in your specific case I think your contention that the owner's manual specifically states not to flush the transmission is incorrect and that specific recommendation is no where in the owner's manual for the specific vehicle we are talking about which is a 2010 Silverado.

I actually downloaded the 2010 Silverado Owner's Manual which was 626 pages and no where in those 626 pages does it mention anything about flushes and the transmission. You failed to provide any reference except some reference to the owner's manual so please give us the page nr. and topic title where you find your contention that the transmission should not be flushed or I would advice folks to disregard your post as your personal opinion and nothing more. BTW I have already agreed that certain types of flushes are not IMO a good way to service your transmission. The document I used came from
2010 Silverado Owners Manual and the manual has the part number of 25854757 A First Printing.

I converted this document to a PDF and then did a FULL search on the word flush and what it does say not to "FLUSH" is the engine oil, but does say to "FLUSH" the cooling system.

What is does say on page 6-23 is

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(4-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid

A good time to check the automatic transmission fluid
level is when the engine oil is changed..
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in
Scheduled Maintenance on page 7?3 and be sure to
use the transmission fluid listed in Recommended
Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.

A similar procedure is found for the 6 speed auto on page 6-26

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(6-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid
It is usually not necessary to check the transmission
fluid level. The only reason for fluid loss is a
transmission leak or overheating the transmission.
If you suspect a small leak, then use the following
checking procedures to check the fluid level. However,
if there is a large leak, then it may be necessary to have
the vehicle towed to a dealer/retailer service department
and have it repaired before driving the vehicle further.
Notice: Use of the incorrect automatic transmission
fluid may damage the vehicle, and the damages may
not be covered by the vehicle's warranty. Always
use the automatic transmission fluid listed in
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in the
Maintenance Schedule. See Scheduled Maintenance
on page 7?3. Be sure to use the transmission fluid
listed in Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on
page 7?13.

Please note in both these they say "FLUID CHANGE" and what I have described doing with with the tranny itself or with the proper machine is exactly that a "FLUID CHANGE". It's not as is normally referred to as a "flush" nor is it a "drop the pan" and fill so what I have described is if you want to follow the owner's manual the closest you can get to a "fluid change". As I have already provided documentation that simply dropping the pan and refilling only changes 5 of the about 12qts in one Chevy tranny and I don't call that by any stretch of the imagination a "FLUID CHANGE". If you do O.K. have at it, but realize what you are actually getting and accomplishing which like one member that thought that got 75% of the fluid changed was way off in his numbers and is basically like the example I gave is doing an engine oil change and putting most of the old oil back in and only adding very little (i.e. less than 50%) new oil.

I leave it to the Chevy owners to figure out the best way to do an effective "FLUID CHANGE".

45Ricochet and 352 your posts are IMO not helpful and do nothing to help or add to the topic being discussed here and I am at a loss to understand why folks like you post the useless type info that you do. I think you should be here to help folks and leave whatever personal agendas and what I can only call "childish" comments such as "Personally I only flush when going #2" you might have at home where they belong.

Finally the apple and oranges statement is questionable here since regardless of make transmissions in their cooling systems are very similar and all have a line out which goes thru the coolers and then a return line in and what I have described for my 4R100 is disconnecting the return line and letting the pump in the transmission push all the fluid thru the internal passages in the tranny and the TC and collect that fluid from the return line, replacing the lost fluid via filling the pan before it runs the tranny dry. This procedure or something very similar should be applicable to many other makes and models of transmissions, but one needs to consult the people actually knowledgeable to get the specifics which at this point no one that has posted in this thread including me has shown that specific level of expertise.


About the only thing I can add in closing is Q.E.D.

Larry

The reason I said go talk to a transmission re builder at a dealership is because what ever I say there will be many who will not believe me. So go hear it from one who knows. I know exactly what happens when you ( FLUSH ) a transmission and I will never do it. When you spend $2500 plus several thousand miles after you ( FLUSH )
You will be thinking about how helpful this post was . So do what you have to do and pay the piper later. I'm finished on this subject and good luck to those who ( FLUSH ).

Well it's becoming obvious to me you don't understand what a flush is or what a fluid exchange that I am talking about is and I have tried to explain the differences, but for some reason you still don't understand which I can only attribute to a lack of knowledge or experience or a combination of the two. I just hope others have since you're arguing with the wrong person about flushes as I think you are referring to. BTW there are many threads on other sites where even people that are mechanics at Chevy dealerships and those who either own or work in independent shops that even advocate actual flushes that use a machine to push the fluid and chemicals even in reverse which is something I have already said is IMO a BIG NO NO. Doing what I am advocating uses only tranny fluid, NO CHEMICALS and does not "FORCE" the fluid thru the transmission, but simply uses the existing pump in the transmission to natural remove almost all the old fluid and replace it with new fluid. It puts no extra fluid pressure or flow nor introduce any foreign chemicals in the system and is as benign as simply driving your vehicle normally. You seem to want to call that a FLUSH and if so then you truly do not understand what is being discussed here.

Larry

Our lives would be simpler if the Big 3 would put an oil life monitor on transmissions.

one more comment and i am done here. if you want to talk about opinions and misconceptions, comparing transmission fluid to motor oil is one such. a 100% fluid change is not always advisable nor beneficial as it is with engine oil. Do some research on that...provide YOUR cited references that state that it is advisable to change 100% of the trans fluid. dont assume that it is obvious.

also regarding the flush...my buddy that owned a six bay shop had a trnsmission service machine that was basically two tubes that got inserted down the dipstick tube. Fresh fluid got pumped in one tube, old fluid extracted via the other tube. still not sure how it didnt just suck up the new fluid coming out of the hose right next to the pickup tube.

lastly, ligten up larry, life is too short. go camping! for me, looks like i have to go back to using my block list.....

LarryJM wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:


The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

I just love folks that say this or that says this or that and fail to provide any verifiable source to backup their for what I can only call unsubstantiated statements and in your specific case I think your contention that the owner's manual specifically states not to flush the transmission is incorrect and that specific recommendation is no where in the owner's manual for the specific vehicle we are talking about which is a 2010 Silverado.

I actually downloaded the 2010 Silverado Owner's Manual which was 626 pages and no where in those 626 pages does it mention anything about flushes and the transmission. You failed to provide any reference except some reference to the owner's manual so please give us the page nr. and topic title where you find your contention that the transmission should not be flushed or I would advice folks to disregard your post as your personal opinion and nothing more. BTW I have already agreed that certain types of flushes are not IMO a good way to service your transmission. The document I used came from
2010 Silverado Owners Manual and the manual has the part number of 25854757 A First Printing.

I converted this document to a PDF and then did a FULL search on the word flush and what it does say not to "FLUSH" is the engine oil, but does say to "FLUSH" the cooling system.

What is does say on page 6-23 is

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(4-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid

A good time to check the automatic transmission fluid
level is when the engine oil is changed..
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in
Scheduled Maintenance on page 7?3 and be sure to
use the transmission fluid listed in Recommended
Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.

A similar procedure is found for the 6 speed auto on page 6-26

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(6-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid
It is usually not necessary to check the transmission
fluid level. The only reason for fluid loss is a
transmission leak or overheating the transmission.
If you suspect a small leak, then use the following
checking procedures to check the fluid level. However,
if there is a large leak, then it may be necessary to have
the vehicle towed to a dealer/retailer service department
and have it repaired before driving the vehicle further.
Notice: Use of the incorrect automatic transmission
fluid may damage the vehicle, and the damages may
not be covered by the vehicle's warranty. Always
use the automatic transmission fluid listed in
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in the
Maintenance Schedule. See Scheduled Maintenance
on page 7?3. Be sure to use the transmission fluid
listed in Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on
page 7?13.

Please note in both these they say "FLUID CHANGE" and what I have described doing with with the tranny itself or with the proper machine is exactly that a "FLUID CHANGE". It's not as is normally referred to as a "flush" nor is it a "drop the pan" and fill so what I have described is if you want to follow the owner's manual the closest you can get to a "fluid change". As I have already provided documentation that simply dropping the pan and refilling only changes 5 of the about 12qts in one Chevy tranny and I don't call that by any stretch of the imagination a "FLUID CHANGE". If you do O.K. have at it, but realize what you are actually getting and accomplishing which like one member that thought that got 75% of the fluid changed was way off in his numbers and is basically like the example I gave is doing an engine oil change and putting most of the old oil back in and only adding very little (i.e. less than 50%) new oil.

I leave it to the Chevy owners to figure out the best way to do an effective "FLUID CHANGE".

45Ricochet and 352 your posts are IMO not helpful and do nothing to help or add to the topic being discussed here and I am at a loss to understand why folks like you post the useless type info that you do. I think you should be here to help folks and leave whatever personal agendas and what I can only call "childish" comments such as "Personally I only flush when going #2" you might have at home where they belong.

Finally the apple and oranges statement is questionable here since regardless of make transmissions in their cooling systems are very similar and all have a line out which goes thru the coolers and then a return line in and what I have described for my 4R100 is disconnecting the return line and letting the pump in the transmission push all the fluid thru the internal passages in the tranny and the TC and collect that fluid from the return line, replacing the lost fluid via filling the pan before it runs the tranny dry. This procedure or something very similar should be applicable to many other makes and models of transmissions, but one needs to consult the people actually knowledgeable to get the specifics which at this point no one that has posted in this thread including me has shown that specific level of expertise.


About the only thing I can add in closing is Q.E.D.

Larry

The reason I said go talk to a transmission re builder at a dealership is because what ever I say there will be many who will not believe me. So go hear it from one who knows. I know exactly what happens when you ( FLUSH ) a transmission and I will never do it. When you spend $2500 plus several thousand miles after you ( FLUSH )
You will be thinking about how helpful this post was . So do what you have to do and pay the piper later. I'm finished on this subject and good luck to those who ( FLUSH ).

Charlie D. wrote:


The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

I just love folks that say this or that says this or that and fail to provide any verifiable source to backup their for what I can only call unsubstantiated statements and in your specific case I think your contention that the owner's manual specifically states not to flush the transmission is incorrect and that specific recommendation is no where in the owner's manual for the specific vehicle we are talking about which is a 2010 Silverado.

I actually downloaded the 2010 Silverado Owner's Manual which was 626 pages and no where in those 626 pages does it mention anything about flushes and the transmission. You failed to provide any reference except some reference to the owner's manual so please give us the page nr. and topic title where you find your contention that the transmission should not be flushed or I would advice folks to disregard your post as your personal opinion and nothing more. BTW I have already agreed that certain types of flushes are not IMO a good way to service your transmission. The document I used came from
2010 Silverado Owners Manual and the manual has the part number of 25854757 A First Printing.

I converted this document to a PDF and then did a FULL search on the word flush and what it does say not to "FLUSH" is the engine oil, but does say to "FLUSH" the cooling system.

What is does say on page 6-23 is

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(4-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid

A good time to check the automatic transmission fluid
level is when the engine oil is changed..
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in
Scheduled Maintenance on page 7?3 and be sure to
use the transmission fluid listed in Recommended
Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.

A similar procedure is found for the 6 speed auto on page 6-26

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(6-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid
It is usually not necessary to check the transmission
fluid level. The only reason for fluid loss is a
transmission leak or overheating the transmission.
If you suspect a small leak, then use the following
checking procedures to check the fluid level. However,
if there is a large leak, then it may be necessary to have
the vehicle towed to a dealer/retailer service department
and have it repaired before driving the vehicle further.
Notice: Use of the incorrect automatic transmission
fluid may damage the vehicle, and the damages may
not be covered by the vehicle's warranty. Always
use the automatic transmission fluid listed in
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in the
Maintenance Schedule. See Scheduled Maintenance
on page 7?3. Be sure to use the transmission fluid
listed in Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on
page 7?13.

Please note in both these they say "FLUID CHANGE" and what I have described doing with with the tranny itself or with the proper machine is exactly that a "FLUID CHANGE". It's not as is normally referred to as a "flush" nor is it a "drop the pan" and fill so what I have described is if you want to follow the owner's manual the closest you can get to a "fluid change". As I have already provided documentation that simply dropping the pan and refilling only changes 5 of the about 12qts in one Chevy tranny and I don't call that by any stretch of the imagination a "FLUID CHANGE". If you do O.K. have at it, but realize what you are actually getting and accomplishing which like one member that thought that got 75% of the fluid changed was way off in his numbers and is basically like the example I gave is doing an engine oil change and putting most of the old oil back in and only adding very little (i.e. less than 50%) new oil.

I leave it to the Chevy owners to figure out the best way to do an effective "FLUID CHANGE".

45Ricochet and 352 your posts are IMO not helpful and do nothing to help or add to the topic being discussed here and I am at a loss to understand why folks like you post the useless type info that you do. I think you should be here to help folks and leave whatever personal agendas and what I can only call "childish" comments such as "Personally I only flush when going #2" you might have at home where they belong.

Finally the apple and oranges statement is questionable here since regardless of make transmissions in their cooling systems are very similar and all have a line out which goes thru the coolers and then a return line in and what I have described for my 4R100 is disconnecting the return line and letting the pump in the transmission push all the fluid thru the internal passages in the tranny and the TC and collect that fluid from the return line, replacing the lost fluid via filling the pan before it runs the tranny dry. This procedure or something very similar should be applicable to many other makes and models of transmissions, but one needs to consult the people actually knowledgeable to get the specifics which at this point no one that has posted in this thread including me has shown that specific level of expertise.

About the only thing I can add in closing is Q.E.D.

Larry

45Ricochet wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

X2
Great advice since we are comparing apples and oranges. Personally I only flush when going #2 :B

Perfect answer. Case closed

Charlie D. wrote:

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

X2
Great advice since we are comparing apples and oranges. Personally I only flush when going #2 :B

LarryJM wrote:

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

LarryJM wrote:

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry

WOW WOW and WOW

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry