Could VIA Motors be the next generation of tow vehicles?

John & Angela wrote:

MegaWonder wrote:
Well said John, having an EV for longer commutes makes you very aware of how your driving (speed and takeoffs from starts) and what accessories (heat temp, AC, headlights, windshield wipers etc.) your using. My EV does not use the more efficient heatpump for climate control found on the latest models of EVs. We use either the radio remote keyfob or the smart phone app to check SOC (state of charge) or pre conditioning the climate control. We do realize we are using our EV to its limits (82/84 mile epa adjusted range). We are able to charge @120v during work day for trip back home. This L1 (120v)charge does not fully charge vehicle during work day but during the warmer months it is suffice to about 80/82% avg charge. Winter time without having some type of climatic controlled battery system (like $$Tesla) finds our preceived range (using the computer guess range display) find us limited to up to 40% or more perceived range loss. The nature of our lithion battery chemistry does not allow battery to charge to full capacity. So we use the backup vehicle during these extreme cold days and use the EV locally.

I think in 20 years a lot of us first adapters will look back and smile at some of the challenges we had with the first couple generations of EV's. :) Range, climate control etc. :) When we come back from our europe trip in 2018 we will probably buy the new generation leaf as a second vehicle and be an all electric family except for the motorhome of course. I would love the new tesla 300 at around the 35000 mark but I think from the price and service point of view the leaf will be better for us. Our smart EV is serviced by mercedes and they are co-located with nissan so its kind of one stop shopping for warranty checks etc.

Im curious what you are driving?

Hi John,
We were extremely lucky in being able to obtain the limited produced Honda Fit EV. 1 of 1,100 produced 2013 and 2014 model years (technology from 2011 I suppose) These are compliance vehicles... Could not pass up the deal. These Lease only vehicles (no purchase option) is an UNLIMITED milage lease and all maintance and inspection included,Collision portion of insurance covered by Honda, as well as the Leviton EVSE (charge equipment both Level 1 portable and Level 2 charge euipment) installation not included. Got in at $259 per month for 36months.. Deal got a little sweeter (especially for the early lesee from 2012 coming off lease) and new Lesee (if you can find one very rare) can Lease for 24months @ $199..same terms from way I understand it. We still have 2 more years left and will weigh out are options at that point.. Tesla model 3?, Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf should all be in the 200mile per charge range. Have noticed more High Voltage DC chargers popping up, (using the free Plug Share app), so our next EV will have fast charge capabilities Chademo or Tesla or equivelent. Like you though most if not 99% is at home or work. Vehicle for us is primarily the commuter tool but is a lot of fun to drive as well.

I do believe some of you are missing the point of this truck.

This truck will never be a tow vehicle.........at least in the sense of this forum (RV's). Batteries have a limit. They just can't get better and better and better without end.

"The maximum theoretical potential of advanced lithium-ion batteries that haven't yet been demonstrated to work is still only about 6 percent of crude oil."

Lets say you buy one of this trucks for 80 grand to tow your TT. Here is what's going to happen. Just to tow your high roof TT down the road on the straight and level it will take around 100 to 125 HP. The figures go up at an unbelievable rate when you come to a hill let alone mountains.

Now lets say you live in KS where there are no hills or mountains. So you and your family take off for California on your dream vacation. All is golden till about 10 to 15 miles down the road. That is where you battery power will end. No problem say you, "I have a genset under the hood" to keep going. Very true. But that genset can only put out around 100 KW or energy continuously. Math says 100 KW is about 135 HP. Your 80 grand truck now can only put out 135 HP max. Even then, there are losses. (Remember, it takes 100 to 125 HP just on a flat road at 65 MPH with most TT'ers and you now only have a few more HP than that to pull a hill or mountain.

So after 10 or 15 miles of your dream trip to California your now really cool tow truck now only has 135 HP to tow to CA on. Oh sure, when you get to the campground at night you can plug in and get another 10 or 15 miles down the road on your trip. Or on the other side of the mountain you can capture a few KW's and put them back into your battery.

When you get to the Rockies things get real ugly. Your batteries are only going to last you two or three miles at the most. Your genset will kick in and you will have a snail pace 135 HP to tow your TT over the Rockies with. Remember, the 4.3 Chevy motor puts out right at 300 HP but your genset will only recharge your batteries at a 100 KW continuous output (135 HP)so that's what your going to get at your wheels.

Remember, these trucks were not designed to tow anything with. They were made to get great gas mileage around town hauling a few things in the bed. And they do get at that. "Practical" towing a TT for long distances? No, it won't happen.

John & Angela wrote:

shepstone wrote:
40-45 miles??? I'm assuming that is an empty truck as well. Seems counter productive .Correct if I am wrong but I don't think that battery technology is good enough yet to electrify a truck.

I think thats a valid point but I would think there are a lot of people driving around with a truck that less than 10 percent of the time have anything in them. 40 miles would cover the range needs for a lot of people with their truck most of the time. And remember, there are charge station in lots of places and more all the time.

It will improve over time.

Exactly. This could be just the ticket for someone like me. 80% of the time, I'm just driving my truck to and from work (22 miles round trip), running errands, etc. Easily less than 40 miles a day average. But I have the occasional long drive, and need to be able to tow once or twice a month. This truck could do all of that.

I like/need a truck, the numbers don't add up enough to have a second 'commuter 'car,' but wish I could drive something more efficient for my daily commute. The VIA kind of solves that problem (yeah, for the extra premium I could buy a commuter car, but ...).

The Via system keeps the OEM engine, so the OEM heater will work

MegaWonder wrote:
Well said John, having an EV for longer commutes makes you very aware of how your driving (speed and takeoffs from starts) and what accessories (heat temp, AC, headlights, windshield wipers etc.) your using. My EV does not use the more efficient heatpump for climate control found on the latest models of EVs. We use either the radio remote keyfob or the smart phone app to check SOC (state of charge) or pre conditioning the climate control. We do realize we are using our EV to its limits (82/84 mile epa adjusted range). We are able to charge @120v during work day for trip back home. This L1 (120v)charge does not fully charge vehicle during work day but during the warmer months it is suffice to about 80/82% avg charge. Winter time without having some type of climatic controlled battery system (like $$Tesla) finds our preceived range (using the computer guess range display) find us limited to up to 40% or more perceived range loss. The nature of our lithion battery chemistry does not allow battery to charge to full capacity. So we use the backup vehicle during these extreme cold days and use the EV locally.

I think in 20 years a lot of us first adapters will look back and smile at some of the challenges we had with the first couple generations of EV's. :) Range, climate control etc. :) When we come back from our europe trip in 2018 we will probably buy the new generation leaf as a second vehicle and be an all electric family except for the motorhome of course. I would love the new tesla 300 at around the 35000 mark but I think from the price and service point of view the leaf will be better for us. Our smart EV is serviced by mercedes and they are co-located with nissan so its kind of one stop shopping for warranty checks etc.

Im curious what you are driving?

Well said John, having an EV for longer commutes makes you very aware of how your driving (speed and takeoffs from starts) and what accessories (heat temp, AC, headlights, windshield wipers etc.) your using. My EV does not use the more efficient heatpump for climate control found on the latest models of EVs. We use either the radio remote keyfob or the smart phone app to check SOC (state of charge) or pre conditioning the climate control. We do realize we are using our EV to its limits (82/84 mile epa adjusted range). We are able to charge @120v during work day for trip back home. This L1 (120v)charge does not fully charge vehicle during work day but during the warmer months it is suffice to about 80/82% avg charge. Winter time without having some type of climatic controlled battery system (like $$Tesla) finds our preceived range (using the computer guess range display) find us limited to up to 40% or more perceived range loss. The nature of our lithion battery chemistry does not allow battery to charge to full capacity. So we use the backup vehicle during these extreme cold days and use the EV locally.

Lessmore wrote:


I had a gas heater in one of my VW Beetles back in the '60's. Very effective, very warm in the bug, but it did eat gas.

Had a friend who owned one. he had to open the sun roof slightly to get enough air to flow thru to heat it up. :)
bumpy

Bumpyroad wrote:
how do these electric vehicles get heated up in the winter?
reminds me of the old VW bug days, freeze to death.
bumpy

I had a gas heater in one of my VW Beetles back in the '60's. Very effective, very warm in the bug, but it did eat gas.

But you bring up a very good question.

How will the electric trucks do in cold winter climes like where I live...gets to - 30, -35 regularly ?

Not just keeping warm, which I imagine will be handled by an electric heater in the cab, but the big question is will the miles per charge, be affected by extreme cold ?

What will the driving range be in -30 to -35 weather ?

Bumpyroad wrote:
how do these electric vehicles get heated up in the winter?
reminds me of the old VW bug days, freeze to death.
bumpy

Good morning Bumpy. Our mornings here are pretty nippy right now, about 6 or 7 degrees celcius. On the way to work in my CDI diesel I am halfway to work before the heat even starts to show up. (Thank god for heated seats). In Angelas car from the time she gets in the car to the time its warm inside is about 200 yards thanks to the 5 KW heater. She also has heated seats. The other cool thing is she can turn on her climate control from her Iphone 10 minutes before she leaves. Real nice on hot days. This comes at a cost to range and when you crank on the heat if your range was reading 120 (or whatever) before the computer will immediately recalculate and you will lose 25 or 30 km off the range. Not an issue for her as a busy day for her is still in that 40 to 50 km thing. However if you use the iphone to cool it off or whatever before you go and its still plugged in you don't lose near as much range as there is less demand once you are in. Kinda cool. Its a whole learning curve and definitely a different mindset driving these things.

Hope that helps.

John

how do these electric vehicles get heated up in the winter?
reminds me of the old VW bug days, freeze to death.
bumpy