Forum Discussion
66 Replies
markandkim wrote:
You got to know, when you ask a little engine to do what they are asking there are going to be major problems. just follow the # 1 rule; There is no substitute for cubic inches. Remember when you daddy and your brother told you that? It still stands today, even with todays modern technology.
Yup heard that right after WW1 ,when they went from 25 to 15 litre engines.thomasmnile wrote:
I don't completely understand the phenomena, but isn't this condensation formation issue caused by what's known as "venturi effect" in high humidity conditions, similar to what happens to a normally aspirated piston engine aircraft only ice forms in the aircraft engine's carburetor rather than liquid condensation? On an aircraft engine, there is a carburetor heat control that when activated, directs some engine exhaust into the intake air to heat it and prevent carburetor icing.
Just have to believe the fix shouldn't be elusive to Ford, since turbocharged engines have been around forever.................
Not sure on the venturi effect... I do know a thing about carbs icing up. I had the same issue on my '70 pickup in the winter when I was in college in northern Utah. Really cold and going over the mountain pass the carb would ice up and the throttle would stick. My remedy was to modulate the throttle a little bit every couple minutes to keep it broken free.
I read more on the EB awhile back about high-humidity being a cause or magnifier to this condensation/misfire issue. I still feel that loading these things once in awhile will reduce/eliminate the problem; it shouldn't happen and owners shouldn't need to go out and flog their vehicles from time to time. It is just like when all the diesels went to DPFs. City driving, extended idle times, short-cycling, all lead to plugged DPFs. The solution was to drive them to get the exhaust gas temps up and help burn the soot out. I still feel that if these were 'worked' every once in awhile, water would not collect in the IC.nohurry wrote:
Ford was looking to the future in gas engine technology with the ecos, and I say kudos to them for that. When they came out in the truck application some said "Oh man, this is going to be interesting! It'll never hold up!" Etc. well, after three complete model years it has. I'm not surprised there are some issues with some components such as the inter-cooler, and Ford seems to be addressing them. For whatever reason, these 3 people think legal action is the way to go. We truly don't know their real motive. If it's to benefit the buying public by holding a companies feet to the fire to stand behind the product, then fine. There may be more to it though.
I'm not real old yet, but I'm certainly not young either, and I've owned all the brands in my time. I choose not to bash someone else's choice, but I sincerely hate to see any American company go down. I think we are smart enough to know that they wouldn't knowingly put out products or components that will fail in some way, but we should be confident that they'll stand behind them. If you don't think they will, simply vote with your wallet, and go elsewhere like Ricatic did. I said publicly in this forum that I didn't blame him. The Fords I have previously, and currently owned have been very good to me though, so I will stay with them until I have a reason (like some of you), to switch. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some blue Kool aid on ice I need to get to (Goes good with popcorn)!
My guess is that these few people have tried to get it fixed many times and are sick of driving with a reoccurring problem. I had the infamous tranny bump on my 10 F150 6spd. I was told after several visits to the dealer that they considered it normal and also that they had no idea why this normal problem existed. And to just drive it and if something broke or malfunctioned enough that since I had a warranty it would get fixed. So in a nut shell just drive it till it breaks so then they will know what is causing the problem. Just go to any F150 forum and you can read about several common problems that have no fix. That lack of competency is why after years of being a Ford guy jumped to a Ram. I may go through the same thing with Ram at some day but I gave Ford a chance and wasn't happy with the results.- You got to know, when you ask a little engine to do what they are asking there are going to be major problems. just follow the # 1 rule; There is no substitute for cubic inches. Remember when you daddy and your brother told you that? It still stands today, even with todays modern technology.
- Ford was looking to the future in gas engine technology with the ecos, and I say kudos to them for that. When they came out in the truck application some said "Oh man, this is going to be interesting! It'll never hold up!" Etc. well, after three complete model years it has. I'm not surprised there are some issues with some components such as the inter-cooler, and Ford seems to be addressing them. For whatever reason, these 3 people think legal action is the way to go. We truly don't know their real motive. If it's to benefit the buying public by holding a companies feet to the fire to stand behind the product, then fine. There may be more to it though.
I'm not real old yet, but I'm certainly not young either, and I've owned all the brands in my time. I choose not to bash someone else's choice, but I sincerely hate to see any American company go down. I think we are smart enough to know that they wouldn't knowingly put out products or components that will fail in some way, but we should be confident that they'll stand behind them. If you don't think they will, simply vote with your wallet, and go elsewhere like Ricatic did. I said publicly in this forum that I didn't blame him. The Fords I have previously, and currently owned have been very good to me though, so I will stay with them until I have a reason (like some of you), to switch. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some blue Kool aid on ice I need to get to (Goes good with popcorn)! boogie_4wheel wrote:
skipnchar wrote:
The "problem" is not new and it's so far anyway been only a tiny fraction of the total built.
Isn't the "problem" that condensation is forming in the intercooler, and as drivers accelerate the intake draws in a tiny bit of water and causes a misfire, and the ECM may panic and go to limp mode?! Yeah, this has been floating around on the internet for awhile.
Simple fix for this, don't short-cycle the engines. Just like when everyone says don't idle an engine during long term storage to 'circulate fluids', or don't drive diesels on short trips that don't get them up to operating temperature.
If the 3.5L Ecoboost was a non-IC design, there would be less (if any) places for water to accumulate and cause this issue. I'd bet money that skipnchar will never have this issue with his truck because he uses it to tow, gets it hot, and that will keep the water from accumulating.
I would also bet that this issue begins to appear on the 2.0L and other EB engines that have ICs that are operated in the same conditions as I've mentioned above.
With that said, the wife and I are still planning on purchasing a 2.0L Ecoboost equipped Ford Escape later this year to replace her '05 Escape 3.0L.
I don't completely understand the phenomena, but isn't this condensation formation issue caused by what's known as "venturi effect" in high humidity conditions, similar to what happens to a normally aspirated piston engine aircraft only ice forms in the aircraft engine's carburetor rather than liquid condensation? On an aircraft engine, there is a carburetor heat control that when activated, directs some engine exhaust into the intake air to heat it and prevent carburetor icing.
Just have to believe the fix shouldn't be elusive to Ford, since turbocharged engines have been around forever.................- Wow, talk about a confoluted and baseless lawsuit. There are 2 versions of the EB 3.5, one for the cars/CUV's and one for the F150
I've got an early build 2010 SHO with the 3.5EB. At 55k and it's had the 2 symptoms in the lawsuit: the pinging/surging and the lack of power.
The known issues are:
1. Pinging/surging - affects early build Ecoboosts. For the knock sensor, Ford only used vinyl tape/shrinkwrap on the knock sensor wires. They ran next to an engine part (head I believe) and after 20k or so would chafe and cause the knock sensor readings to go crazy. Knock Sensor Chafing It was fixed in later builds (and with the replacement parts) by using loom encasing the wires. I believe in later (2011+) engines they rerouted the wire completely. Dealer fixed this without incident.
2. Cutout - This affects not only the EB 3.5's but a few others that use the 6F transmission. Transmission range sensor goes bad and confuses the car that you are in 1, 2, 3 or R and it goes into limp mode to protect itself. Ford has a TSB out for it and again, fixed by the dealer without issue. There are also trans mods if you are getting slipping and those only apply to the 6F55 if you are in a certain build date.
The F150 had an oversized intercooler. Ford has a fix and those affected have been getting their trucks fixed.
You buy the first year of anything and there are bound to be problems. None of the issues with mine make me enjoy it less - love the car. Maybe being in IT makes me be more understanding (same deal with V1.0 software)? - Ford just needs a better intercooler on the earlier trucks.
skipnchar wrote:
The "problem" is not new and it's so far anyway been only a tiny fraction of the total built.
Isn't the "problem" that condensation is forming in the intercooler, and as drivers accelerate the intake draws in a tiny bit of water and causes a misfire, and the ECM may panic and go to limp mode?! Yeah, this has been floating around on the internet for awhile.
Simple fix for this, don't short-cycle the engines. Just like when everyone says don't idle an engine during long term storage to 'circulate fluids', or don't drive diesels on short trips that don't get them up to operating temperature.
If the 3.5L Ecoboost was a non-IC design, there would be less (if any) places for water to accumulate and cause this issue. I'd bet money that skipnchar will never have this issue with his truck because he uses it to tow, gets it hot, and that will keep the water from accumulating.
I would also bet that this issue begins to appear on the 2.0L and other EB engines that have ICs that are operated in the same conditions as I've mentioned above.
With that said, the wife and I are still planning on purchasing a 2.0L Ecoboost equipped Ford Escape later this year to replace her '05 Escape 3.0L.
