Electric and ICE forever together?

way2roll wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Geez, that's why you are constantly making a friggin stink about EVs? Because your tax dollars are being spent on it...

Get over it. Our tax dollars are spent on tons of stuff and no one person is EVER going to be happy with 100 percent of the way it's spent. And yes, we even pay into things that we have no desire to be a part of - big frickin deal.

Reading comprehension. It matters - or in this case maybe that's part and parcel of the problem. EV's were touted as green using parts of science and one fraction of the process of production to convince voters and those in power to dump a bunch of money into it. They aren't green and they won't save the planet. Full stop. I don't mind tax dollars being spent on things that actually benefit the general populous. That is not the case here. EV's don't solve a single problem - ecological or otherwise. They actually cause a lot of problems many of which are short to come with long term consequences.

Actualy EV solve one big problem which is air polution.
Prety important for those living in crowded cities.

Driling for oil and burning fosil fuels is what makes sick and kils many milions of people every year.

And if your house power goes down in winter one can nicely survive keeping warm in Tesla even if parked in a garage. Try that with gas or diesel vehicle :)
https://youtu.be/N-BTBsyjCaw

Technology still has a long way to go.

This is the year we were supposed to be like the Jetsons.

ktmrfs wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

2oldman wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
If DW or I were still working and needed a second vehicle for commuting to/from work, probably would have focused on either a plug in or full EV.

I bought a Nissan Leaf from Carvana last summer. Charged it to 100% in October, left for the winter, and 4 months later it was still at 100%.

Like George C Scott said about his Cadillac in 'The Hustler', "I like that car."

How many miles a year do you put on it?

On Acura MDX hybrid, we had plans for many many long road trips, That was in Feb 2020......... Well we all know the rest of the story.... 2020, 2021, was only about 6K/year mostly in town or short trips, 2022, back up to about 8 K with a few longer trips. 2023 is likely to be around 15K, with the 6K or so around town at 26-28mpg vs 15-16 or so with the non hybrid. With current fuel prices around here the around town economy difference amounts to about $650-700/year in fuel saving and the initial price difference was $1500. So we've already paid off the price premium.

Sounds like pay-off for hybrid option on a car is a lot quicker than the pay-off for the diesel option on a class 3 truck.
Of course when discussing the truck talking pay-off sets hair on fire.

Grit dog wrote:

2oldman wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
If DW or I were still working and needed a second vehicle for commuting to/from work, probably would have focused on either a plug in or full EV.

I bought a Nissan Leaf from Carvana last summer. Charged it to 100% in October, left for the winter, and 4 months later it was still at 100%.

Like George C Scott said about his Cadillac in 'The Hustler', "I like that car."

How many miles a year do you put on it?

On Acura MDX hybrid, we had plans for many many long road trips, That was in Feb 2020......... Well we all know the rest of the story.... 2020, 2021, was only about 6K/year mostly in town or short trips, 2022, back up to about 8 K with a few longer trips. 2023 is likely to be around 15K, with the 6K or so around town at 26-28mpg vs 15-16 or so with the non hybrid. With current fuel prices around here the around town economy difference amounts to about $650-700/year in fuel saving and the initial price difference was $1500. So we've already paid off the price premium.

2oldman wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
If DW or I were still working and needed a second vehicle for commuting to/from work, probably would have focused on either a plug in or full EV.

I bought a Nissan Leaf from Carvana last summer. Charged it to 100% in October, left for the winter, and 4 months later it was still at 100%.

Like George C Scott said about his Cadillac in 'The Hustler', "I like that car."

How many miles a year do you put on it?

ktmrfs wrote:
If DW or I were still working and needed a second vehicle for commuting to/from work, probably would have focused on either a plug in or full EV.

I bought a Nissan Leaf from Carvana last summer. Charged it to 100% in October, left for the winter, and 4 months later it was still at 100%.

Like George C Scott said about his Cadillac in 'The Hustler', "I like that car."

The EV evolution, since it affects transportation, get's lots of attention.

Seems like there are at least 3 types of reactions.

a) ***** to high heaven how bad/terrible, it is for any reasons one can come up with, without any thought for anything positive
b) ***** to high heaven how slow it is going and what' holding it up again, for whatever reasons one can come up with and nothing negative
c) Don't worry about it, and when time comes to get a new vehicle, look at the options and decide what best fits your needs

I'm a (c) I track developments, etc. out of technology interests but that's about it. And I go about my day/week/month enjoying what I've got. I don't get drug down rabbit hole (a) or (b) and let it disrupt me.

When we last bought a car (2020, just before COVID) I got current on hybrids and non hybrid options and picked what we liked, which just happened to be a mild hybrid. Vehicle turned out fantastic, glad there was a hybrid available.

If DW or I were still working and needed a second vehicle for commuting to/from work, probably would have focused on either a plug in or full EV.

ktmrfs wrote:
the military complex was funneling huge amounts of money into stuff to replace tubes and new electronics as well as indirectly supporting the test equipment mfg through large purchases of test equipment.

For all the flak the government takes, they do manage to do some pretty good things.

2oldman wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:
MANY MANY things one takes for granted today started with massive gov't subsidies. The IC industry is an example, many of the IC's and process development was funded either directly or through military contracts, and we all benefit.

I've understood the space program to be a driving force behind miniaturizing circuits, eventually leading to the computers we have today.

space program was another major driver, but even before that the military complex was funneling huge amounts of money into stuff to replace tubes and new electronics as well as indirectly supporting the test equipment mfg through large purchases of test equipment.

The company I worked for had multiple developments for which the military or space program bought devices from us, no info on what they would be used for etc. However when certain things happened in the space military program and suddenly orders stopped and when stuff was back working, orders rolled in.

Yeah, the “EVs get govt subsidies” is a very weak argument to use. Actually shows ignorance or an agenda (not unlike the opposite side of the coin falsehoods and arguments blindly supporting EVs).
So don’t stoop to that level.