Electric truck - tow vehicle of future ?

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Good morning. I brought up the EU to illustrate that people who live in Norway commute or travel to neighbouring countries routinely with both their EV's and ICE vehicles. But, part of this is because of the infrastructure available to them. We are experienced European travellers, speak multiple languages and have the opportunity to speak with EV'ers in Europe...although not so much in Nowray. And yes, there are a ton of ICE vehicles still on the road in Norway but of course this only makes sense as EV's are not the panacea to every driving need...or at least not in their present form. The future will bring changes of course.

I suggest googling the EU. Norway is not a member

Also given the size and location of population centers of Norway, I doubt you are seeing many people commute to other countries. As an example, Oslo to the nearest boarder is about 45miles. Assuming they are commuting to jobs in major cities, it's at least another 50 miles from the border.

The whole idea that people are using EV's to commute to other countries from Norway doesn't hold up to even modest inspection.

Yes I am aware of Norways status in the European community and marketplace and the Schengen agreement. Commuting 150 KM miles is not fun but not that unusual as well. I am not sure I follow. Agreed that normal commutes are usually shorter...at least for us although I used to do a 400 km weekly commute. That sucked.

John & Angela wrote:


Its true. Most EV's have software that limit the output current under certain conditions and temperatures. Our one EV does that after thirty seconds of full pedal although in normal driving there would never be a reason to have full pedal after thirty seconds. Not sure about our other one or what the parameters are. I am not sure how they do it with the Formula E cars. I would suspect some sort of cooling system. But as far as Tesla's competing on race tracks, remember, these are just luxury family SUV's and sedans, they were not made to race although they do pretty good on the drag strip. Tesla has shown no interest in racing which is generally done as a form of advertising. Tesla also doesn't advertise. Why would they, they have two years of production pre-sold. Class 8 is easily achievable within a couple years and 100 mile would work well for many routes. And since ranges continually increase on all EV's that number will continue to increase and be suitable for more and more markets. JMHO

Tesla is the one putting it up against super cars.

I was suggesting putting it up against a base Ford Focus with a 4 banger.

One other issue with using Norway as an example: They subsidize EV's by selling huge amounts of that nasty oil. Take away the oil and you would see a much different approach.

John & Angela wrote:


Good morning. I brought up the EU to illustrate that people who live in Norway commute or travel to neighbouring countries routinely with both their EV's and ICE vehicles. But, part of this is because of the infrastructure available to them. We are experienced European travellers, speak multiple languages and have the opportunity to speak with EV'ers in Europe...although not so much in Nowray. And yes, there are a ton of ICE vehicles still on the road in Norway but of course this only makes sense as EV's are not the panacea to every driving need...or at least not in their present form. The future will bring changes of course.

I suggest googling the EU. Norway is not a member.

Also given the size and location of population centers of Norway, I doubt you are seeing many people commute to other countries. As an example, Oslo to the nearest boarder is about 45miles. Assuming they are commuting to jobs in major cities, it's at least another 50 miles from the border.

The whole idea that people are using EV's to commute to other countries from Norway doesn't hold up to even modest inspection.

valhalla360 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Well, the country with the highest density of electric vehicles is Norway. Currently 55 percent of all new vehicles sold in Norway are electric and that number continues to rise. Yes cold weather plays a role in range of EV's but ranges continue to increase as batteries get cheaper. Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar. So EV's can work in colder climates. Having said all that, the infrastructure for work place level one or level 2 charging is also much better. Building codes have been changed requiring level 1 or 2 charging in apartments and condos and of course level 3 charging is much more available. We are a few years behind on this side of the pond but it is beginning to change fairly quickly where we are. We live in a cold climate and both our EV's suit all our needs...but then again, we knew that going in..or we wouldn't have bought them. My point being that obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs, but they are for many.

I've seen this comment before on other sites and when I searched online for the most popular vehicle in norway, the leaf was the top electric vehicle and it came in at #8 with a whopping 906 sold in June.

I'm struggling with the math of how 3-4 electric models (none in the top 7 for sales) could result in 55% of all new car sales?

Do you have a link to the sales by model? Maybe my data is old because what I found was for 2016.

Seems to me I read it on one of the French EV forums but it should be in English too. When I have some time I'll spend some time on google.

John & Angela wrote:


Well, the country with the highest density of electric vehicles is Norway. Currently 55 percent of all new vehicles sold in Norway are electric and that number continues to rise. Yes cold weather plays a role in range of EV's but ranges continue to increase as batteries get cheaper. Norway is a smaller country but remember, this is the EU. People routinely live in one country and work in another as a citizen of the EU can work anywhere in the EU. Commuting distances are similar. So EV's can work in colder climates. Having said all that, the infrastructure for work place level one or level 2 charging is also much better. Building codes have been changed requiring level 1 or 2 charging in apartments and condos and of course level 3 charging is much more available. We are a few years behind on this side of the pond but it is beginning to change fairly quickly where we are. We live in a cold climate and both our EV's suit all our needs...but then again, we knew that going in..or we wouldn't have bought them. My point being that obviously EV's are not suitable for everyone's needs, but they are for many.

I've seen this comment before on other sites and when I searched online for the most popular vehicle in norway, the leaf was the top electric vehicle and it came in at #8 with a whopping 906 sold in June.

I'm struggling with the math of how 3-4 electric models (none in the top 7 for sales) could result in 55% of all new car sales?

Do you have a link to the sales by model? Maybe my data is old because what I found was for 2016.

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Absolutely. But some of the costs are mitigated thru lower health care costs in the cities etc. Socialist countries have a different culture and mindset surrounding things like health care and quality of life. What is important to one society is not necessarily important to another and of course this plays into acceptance of social programs and change. There is not one size fits all for all societies and cultures.

Lower health care costs? For the people or the state? If healthcare is paid for by the state, then the state has to increase taxation on the people to pay for it. Take the 45% income tax in places like Norway versus the 25% in the US on someone who makes $75k a year. That means you will pay $33,750 in taxes versus $18,750 in the US which comes out to $15,000 a year more that you would pay in Norway. Does your health insurance and medical bills equate to $15,000 a year? (And that is not even including the higher sales tax.)

You are right that they have a different culture though. The state charges higher taxes so they can decide who lives and who dies depending on whether it is too costly for them just like they did with Charlie Gard and many others that you don't hear about in US news.

Good morning. Well that comes back to societal and cultural choices. Those of us who live in more socialist societies have chosen to do so for that very reason. Less chance of people falling through the cracks. Yes that comes at a price. I am respectful of different societies choices to do that based on what suits them and I don't consider my society or culture to be better than yours. Its just what is important to us. That doesn't mean it is right for you or your country. Mutual respect of societal choices always goes a long way to getting along with each other.

I was just pointing out that it was not actually a lower cost in the whole scheem of things like you stated it was. You will pay for it one way or another, and just because you don't pay for it up front does not mean you are not paying more on the back end.

Agreed.

John & Angela wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Absolutely. But some of the costs are mitigated thru lower health care costs in the cities etc. Socialist countries have a different culture and mindset surrounding things like health care and quality of life. What is important to one society is not necessarily important to another and of course this plays into acceptance of social programs and change. There is not one size fits all for all societies and cultures.

Lower health care costs? For the people or the state? If healthcare is paid for by the state, then the state has to increase taxation on the people to pay for it. Take the 45% income tax in places like Norway versus the 25% in the US on someone who makes $75k a year. That means you will pay $33,750 in taxes versus $18,750 in the US which comes out to $15,000 a year more that you would pay in Norway. Does your health insurance and medical bills equate to $15,000 a year? (And that is not even including the higher sales tax.)

You are right that they have a different culture though. The state charges higher taxes so they can decide who lives and who dies depending on whether it is too costly for them just like they did with Charlie Gard and many others that you don't hear about in US news.

Good morning. Well that comes back to societal and cultural choices. Those of us who live in more socialist societies have chosen to do so for that very reason. Less chance of people falling through the cracks. Yes that comes at a price. I am respectful of different societies choices to do that based on what suits them and I don't consider my society or culture to be better than yours. Its just what is important to us. That doesn't mean it is right for you or your country. Mutual respect of societal choices always goes a long way to getting along with each other.

I was just pointing out that it was not actually a lower cost in the whole scheem of things like you stated it was. You will pay for it one way or another, and just because you don't pay for it up front does not mean you are not paying more on the back end.

ShinerBock wrote:

John & Angela wrote:


Absolutely. But some of the costs are mitigated thru lower health care costs in the cities etc. Socialist countries have a different culture and mindset surrounding things like health care and quality of life. What is important to one society is not necessarily important to another and of course this plays into acceptance of social programs and change. There is not one size fits all for all societies and cultures.

Lower health care costs? For the people or the state? If healthcare is paid for by the state, then the state has to increase taxation on the people to pay for it. Take the 45% income tax in places like Norway versus the 25% in the US on someone who makes $75k a year. That means you will pay $33,750 in taxes versus $18,750 in the US which comes out to $15,000 a year more that you would pay in Norway. Does your health insurance and medical bills equate to $15,000 a year? (And that is not even including the higher sales tax.)

You are right that they have a different culture though. The state charges higher taxes so they can decide who lives and who dies depending on whether it is too costly for them just like they did with Charlie Gard and many others that you don't hear about in US news.

Good morning. Well that comes back to societal and cultural choices. Those of us who live in more socialist societies have chosen to do so for that very reason. Less chance of people falling through the cracks. Yes that comes at a price. I am respectful of different societies choices to do that based on what suits them and I don't consider my society or culture to be better than yours. Its just what is important to us. That doesn't mean it is right for you or your country. Mutual respect of societal choices always goes a long way to getting along with each other.

John & Angela wrote:


Absolutely. But some of the costs are mitigated thru lower health care costs in the cities etc. Socialist countries have a different culture and mindset surrounding things like health care and quality of life. What is important to one society is not necessarily important to another and of course this plays into acceptance of social programs and change. There is not one size fits all for all societies and cultures.

Lower health care costs? For the people or the state? If healthcare is paid for by the state, then the state has to increase taxation on the people to pay for it. Take a combined county, municipal, and state 45% income tax in places like Norway versus the 25% in the US on someone who makes $75k a year. That means you will pay $33,750 in taxes versus $18,750 in the US which comes out to $15,000 a year more that you would pay in Norway. Does your health insurance and medical bills equate to $15,000 a year? That is not even including the higher 25% sales tax in Norway that is more than twice the amount of the state with the highest sales tax in the US which is Louisiana at 9.98%.

You are right that they have a different culture though. The state charges higher taxes so they can decide who lives and who dies depending on whether it is too costly for them just like they did with Charlie Gard and many others that you don't hear about in US news.