Forum Discussion

Keith_Haw's avatar
Keith_Haw
Explorer
Dec 04, 2015

Engine braking Gas Vs Diesel

Just wondering why gas engines have better engine braking than diesel. No real reason, just wondering. With the higher compression of the diesel I would think that diesel would be better but understand it isn't. I know it was fairly good on the big trucks when I was a trucker.
  • Thanks for this. What I'm hearing is that a diesel engine without an exhaust brake has less engine braking than a same sized gas engine.

    My 2011 F150 with the 3.5L EcoB has good engine/tranny braking in Tow/Haul mode, but on some steep and windy Appalachian trails I've needed to let it wind up to 4000-5000 rpm in first gear so as not to cook the truck+trailer brakes. From what I'm reading here, a similarly sized diesel without an exhaust brake would be worse.

    Have read here that even the RAM 2500 with the I6 Cummins doesn't brake that well on these same trails in first gear because the exhaust brake is disabled when the auto tranny is forced into first. But in auto 2nd, the exhaust brake kicks in and works well. This makes more sense now.

    It also makes sense that the RAM Ecodiesel has weak engine braking, from what I've read in the forums probably worse than my 3.5L EcoB, because it does not implement an exhaust brake.

    And although nobody seems to know for sure, it's possible the Nissan Titan XD with the Cummins 5L has not implemented the turbo's exhaust brake feature, just an engine/tranny Tow/Haul mode. That would be a major disappointment for sure.

    Of the smaller diesels appearing these days, the only one I know for sure has an exhaust brake is the Colorado's Duramax.
  • Compression really has little to do with it. The air is compressed on the compression stroke (naturally) and then pushes the piston back down on what would normally be the power stroke. So it's essentially an air spring.

    Jake brakes work by releasing the compressed air at the top of the compression stroke. This means energy is used to compress the air but none is returned by the air pushing the piston back down. It's a very effective system.

    Others have already mentioned how gasoline compression and what we consider normal diesel exhaust brakes work. They are effective, but not as much as the Jacobs, or "Jake" brake since they don't release energy from the system. (They're not nearly as loud either.)
  • All I know, is that when I'm in tow/haul mode and have the factory exhaust brake turned on, I actually have to give it some throttle going down hills pulling my trailer or I will get run over for going too slow. I use my exhaust brake every time I drive my truck, trailer or not.
  • Ivylog's avatar
    Ivylog
    Explorer III
    Gas engine has a Butterfly valve. A diesel does not.
  • Engine braking for gas engines always comes from intake stroke, working against vacuum of a closed throttle. What you get is proportional to displacement and engine RPM. The 6.8 engine on my motorhome gives me a lot more braking power at 3500-5000 RPM than the 1.5 in my car at any RPM (I can safely run it up to 5000-6000), even though it has a manual transmission. But there is a lot less car to slow down.

    For diesels, there are at least two approaches. Lowest cost is to throttle the exhaust, thus "exhaust brake." Yes, higher compression gives more braking on the exhaust stroke than you would get on the intake from a gasser, but there are few diesels you can crank to 5000 RPM for braking, so might be sort of a wash. And of course, displacement and vehicle mass matter.

    Since most diesels today are turbocharged, there is already some back pressure in the turbine, for exhaust braking. Some recent variable vane turbo designs adjust vane angle to increase flow resistance, which is almost as effective as throttling the exhaust.

    Then there is the compression release brake, which opens the exhaust valve at the top of the compression stroke (Jake brake) which can offer somewhat more abrupt braking than exhaust brake designs, but this has to be designed into the engine. As a trucker, this is probably what your were using.

    Same size engine, a gas engine with throttle closed at 5000 RPM will probably provide more braking than a diesel with exhaust valve closed at 1200 RPM, but not many operators have the nerve to do that to their gas engines, more typically gear for 2000-3000 RPM where there is a lot less braking power.
  • Most newer diesel pickups will have a tow haul mode. When engaged it provides a transmission braking program that downshifts the auto agressivly when you lift off fuel pedal. This provides engine braking as good as a gas truck. Many also have grade logic and cruise grade braking as well. Add turbo exhaust brake on many newer trucks and a diesel will hold speed towing down large grades better than gas.
  • Simple reason

    VACUUM

    Gas engine controls air flow via throttle. When closed high vacuum is created in intake

    Diesel engine controls fuel flow. No throttle no vacuum no engine breaking
    Engine braking on diesel is done by 'Exhaust Brake' or a 'compression release brake (Jake Brake) IF they are so equipped otherwise no engine braking will occur