Family of six looking for tow vehicle

Fourkidletts wrote:
The yukon and the suburban both are not meant for tall people in the back My 6'1 teen sat in the back of both yesterday and his knees were almost in his face. I only have one child that could fit back there but hes 12 and growing. The vans seem too big for just my day to day driving. This is difficult. Researching the big cab trucks but none of us are excited about the coziness. We don't want a big trailer. What about a small ultralight of about 3000 lbs could that be pulled with expy? I would love to say we can get a 1 ton vehicle but it doesn't look likely for us. Or we are entertaining taking two vehicles camping.

A couple of comments and observations ....

1. Full sized Vans are not as big as you might think ... they just look big because they are basically shoe boxes and take up a lot of space visually. I would stay away from Vans like the 15 passenger type since that extra 2' while nice does make those one "LOOOONG" around town vehicle and you really don't need that extra room for just 6 adults.

2. Trying to go ultra light or fairly small trailers you still have the issue of finding cargo capacity between the trailer and the TV for the 6 adults, all the food and extra gear like tents, sleeping bags, etc. for sleeping and the list will grow. Also, while a much smaller trailer might be O.K. in certain situations, wait till that first trip in inclement weather where everyone wants some of the better accomodations that the trailer has like hot water, bathroom facilities or even just a place that is dry and out of the weather.

3. What can often happen is folks can pair down the weight for just short weekends, etc., but then having this trailer and a TV you will want to take that vacation of a week or two or more and then what you find you need to take goes out of sight weight wise and you find yourself coming up short and having to make major compromises. This then leaves a sour taste in your mouth of trying to fit that 10lbs in that tiny sock after investing the $$$ in your not inadequate TT/TV setup.

4. As most of us are saying, you need to make the compromises up front by getting first a capable TV that doesn't leave you too short on the TT you can safely tow.

5. If you ever plan to tow/travel with 6 adults for more than say six hours and/or multiple days traveling, a full sized van with at least 3 rows of seats (captain chairs for each would be ideal) is the only way to go IMO. The last thing you want IMO are 4 adult grumpy, tired and complaining kids at the end of 6 hours of traveling ... a really poor start to what is supposed to be a fun outing/camping trip.

Larry

Fourkidletts wrote:
Thanks again for all the responses, I'm learning so much! It's a lot to sort through.

Wes, you made some points that I have been considering also. We can't afford the best tow vehicle and TT I wish we could. The expy we are looking at is a little over half the price it was new, with only 25k miles on it. We are still doing our research but may likely go with whatever small trailer we can tow with it. Like I mentioned I'm not trying to squeeze us all in a trailer it's just not going to happen. A bathroom, kitchenette, a bed is all we want. Kids love sleeping outside. We are plenty used to car camping just adding a little convenience. (man how i hate that 2 am trek to the bathroom!) And living in sunny california I think I've made peace with the 2x4 and carrying chains. Thanks for the idea about the awning/room attached that's a great idea!

Cyndi,

Thank you.

I think we are still on the same wavelength. Providing your kids have enough knee room, I recognise that the proposed Expy is foremost basic family transportation, with the hoped secondary bonus of towing a suitable trailer. And that it will do. It certainly could be overloaded with an oversize trailer, like some mentioned, but you seem to already reasonably recognize that limiting condition and have a ready solution by towing a smaller, lighter trailer. I think you could easily pull a 24 footer and they are already quite accomodating at that size. You can always drive a little slower if it feels more comfortable, but I'll bet the extra weight (more than 2) in the truck will help more in wind, than hinder.

You are not hauling a logging crew of six 250 pound burly men, but two adults and four teenagers. I, and 5 other men (three 2-man crews), were frequently safely transported 200 miles in a 1/2 ton Suburban at work, with 6 heavy equipment grips (luggage), and it worked just fine, we did not go out of control and the Burbs typically ran for 400,000 highway miles before they retired them. Knee room in back can be tight, of course. But the Burbs were much better than the minivans they replaced.

I suppose I should indirectly address some of the deeply concerned remarks made by the "bigger-is-better" crowd. Carefully read what they say. Simply said, most have erroneously assumed you will tow a larger camper, and many larger families do. But not you. You told us that, but not all of us listened.

In the past, when I was a kid, we would have successfully towed all this with a family sedan and the Expy EL is by far, a better tow vehicle. As an example, some properly set-up Canadian RV combinations are still much lighter than the US and work just fine. Frankly, if the Expy fits your family otherwise, you can certainly find a suitable camper to tow behind it. Although many faint-of-heart believe in towing below weight ratings, there is logically nothing wrong with taking factory ratings literally, or maybe even cheating a bit over. Honestly, I think most rigs do cheat a bit in the real world, but they might be a bit uncomfortable mentioning it here, if you can see what I mean. (I have pretty thick skin.)

TRIVIA:
It is true that, to make a sale, RV salespersons tend to be optimistic, that a customers very small truck can pull a huge camper. But here on an RV forum, a focused group that specializes in camping rigs, you will find quite the opposite. No truck is too big for any reason. Whoo whoo. Let me offer my own perspective.

Heck, I bet in the pioneer days, groups of men would get together before the wagon train departed and compare oxen, mules and horses. Some no doubt went out and quickly bought more, and younger draft animals to compete with those that boasted a "superior" number. Then there were the endless arguments as to which could pull better in the mud; oxen, mules or horses. It must have been so easy to be caught up in the crowd hysteria of the time, and think, even today, because we are still essentially the same humans. For heavens sake, in the end, all wagons traveled at the speed of traffic anyway, usually that of the slowest wagon.

But, then again, if it had not been for the manic impatience to "get there" we would not have built railroads. And today we can take vacation even faster by jet. But the path has lost some family intimacy without a wagon behind us. Let us not always hurry so.

Wes
...

Our '05 E350 diesel van specs-

GVWR- 9,500
RGAWR- 6,200
GCWR- 20,000
Payload- ~2500
Trailer tow rating- 10,000
Hitch weight rating- 1,000

The van gets easily 15 mpg around town and 20 mpg highway and has got up to 25 mpg on highway, unloaded, flatland, at 60 mph. The diesel has plenty of power towing in the mountains too and is generally a pleasure to drive.

ANother issue NOT being thought about, is you will probably put 1000-1500 lbs of junque into the trailer in clothes, towels, silver/plasticeware, dishes, water, other drinks, food etc, That 1000 lbs is probably a minimum. We usually had close to 2000 lbs added to the base wt of our trailer. In the winter using it as a ski hut, closer to 2500-3000 lbs by the time you added in ski gear for 6 of us.

I hate to say this, think BIGGER chassis rigs. We had an Astro/safari for daily driving. I used the truck in construction. My TT was the small trailer I pulled. I also have an equipment trailer that is 12K lbs total with 1500 on the hitch. You need payload. Towing power rating is the least of your worries.

marty

And thanks for all the good explanations its finally starting to all make sense to my husband and me.

The yukon and the suburban both are not meant for tall people in the back My 6'1 teen sat in the back of both yesterday and his knees were almost in his face. I only have one child that could fit back there but hes 12 and growing. The vans seem too big for just my day to day driving. This is difficult. Researching the big cab trucks but none of us are excited about the coziness. We don't want a big trailer. What about a small ultralight of about 3000 lbs could that be pulled with expy? I would love to say we can get a 1 ton vehicle but it doesn't look likely for us. Or we are entertaining taking two vehicles camping.

Fourkidletts wrote:
Been reading for hours now. Question...why does payload matter when towing? If I distributed some of the cargo weight to the trailer, and keep the TV at 1500 pounds, why doesn't that work?

Actually it's a good question.
As Marty explained you need to maintain 10-15% hitch weight. Meaning 10-15% of the trailers gross weight needs to be on the hitch. So if the trailer weighs 8000 lbs. Then 10% or 800 lbs minimum needs to be on the hitch.
That 800lbs is essential place on the rear axle of the truck. The truck must now carry that weight in addition to any passenger and cargo weight that is placed in the truck.
If the tongue is too light say 500lbs. The trailer will not tow well and you may have serious performance/sway issues.

It is BEST if you have at least 10-15% of the total trailer wt in hitch wt, which gets placed on the hitch of the two rig. So if you are pulling a 6000 lb trailer, 600-900 lbs will be placed on the tow rig. Leaving you with 900 to as little as 600 lbs for people.

At the end of the day you will want at least say 900 lbs of payload for the hitch, and what ever your family weighs. My case. 1300 lbs with clothes, some toys be them computers, books, extra food, snacks etc. In reality, I was probably closer to 1500, including things like flares, emergency supplies one keeps in the rig. Add in hw of 900, and I am at 2400 lbs minimum payload with 15% worst case scenario hitch wt of the trailer on the tow rig.

Trust me, you are not the first, nor will be the last larger family posting here, trying to stay under a tow rating, yet get the family in the tow rig in a safe and sane manner. You will need at least 1 of not 2 chassis sizes heavier than a typical couple towing the same trailer!

Marty

Been reading for hours now. Question...why does payload matter when towing? If I distributed some of the cargo weight to the trailer, and keep the TV at 1500 pounds, why doesn't that work?

If an Expy as listed only has 1600 lbs of payload, "MY" family of 6 would be with in 300 lbs of total payload, add in the dogs, and a bike or two, and I have said expy OVERLOADED!

As said by others, an Expy is one of the worst choices for a family of 6 trying to tow a trailer! I could not even pull a tent trailer with it! An older Excursion maybe. Even those are a big short on payload, with the 2500 burb being a bit better.

You want at least 3000 lbs of payload or CCC available in your two rig choice! trust me, it will go away really fast, really quick!

Here is a pic of my first family tow rig, a sw 3500 ext cab pickup. you can see the size of my eldest sons, and one of the two dogs. We are at gvwr or a shade above but below all axle ratings with this 24' long trailer that weighs about 6500 lbs. GET THE BIGGEST payload rig you can!



Marty