Family of six looking for tow vehicle

BB_TX wrote:
Check you local Chevy dealers for one of their "certified used" 3500 vans. Pretty easy to find. These are typically 1 year old vans with 15,000-20,000 miles used by some type shuttle service. They come with the GM certification and full warranty.
We own a day care business and have bought 3 of the 15 passenger vans the last few years for $21K-$28K. We do not tow a travel trailer with them but have used them for long family trips with up to 6 adults and 3 children and local trips with even more. Very smooth, quiet, and easy to drive.
4x4 vs 4x2? Personal choice. We have a 4x4 truck towing a 5th wheel trailer. Have never needed or used 4 wheel drive while towing. But we typically drive and park on at least gravel roads and drives.

X2 This would give everyone plenty of room. The 3rd row in a Surb. is not suitable for a tall passenger for long distances. If you get a 15 passenger van, you can take out the last row of seats and have a lot of extra room for tents and sleeping bags while staying close to your stated budget. I would recommend a locking rear differential rather than a 4X4.
Good luck on your search and happy camping.
ArizAl

The Expy will not tow safely when it is short on payload for 6 people and towing.
The 3/4-ton 2500Suburban or Excursion will have the payload capacities to work well. The 2500 Sub was discontinued in 2013. The EX in 2005.
If looking at newer, the 3/4 and 1-Ton passenger vans will carry the crew and tow.

I have a Dodge diesel 4x4 dually that I use to carry a Lance camper and tow my toyhauler. Not at the same time.
I recently bought a 06 Ford E-350 12 pax van with the V10 and 5 sp Torqueshift trans.
I love driving the van as it's shorter, better visibility and plenty of power. I get 13-14 mpg, which cost about the same due to much higher diesel cost.
Best part is with only 80k mi, I paid less than $9k. For some reason vans seem to get overlooked, rather than an suv or pickup. Maybe thats why they're much cheaper.
I have 3 rows of seats that can be removed easily by flipping 2 levers. Also has the rear heat/a/c for passengers.
Its rated to tow 10k lbs and I added a heavy duty hitch capable of 1300 lbs of toungue weight.
It doesnt tow quite as well as my modified Cummins diesel, but does very well with 305 hp and 420 ft/lbs and the Torqueshift 5 sp is a Huge improvement over the old 4 sp.
I even enjoy driving the van around town as having over 12' of protected secured storage space is great.
One downside is unless you want to spend some $$, forget 4x4. I figured if i need more traction, I'll add a locking differential. That will do almost as much as any 4x4.
I'm actually selling my truck and camper and for 1 or 2 day trips, I can throw a cot in the van and be way more mobile and will take the toyhauler for longer trips.
I don't have kids, but the van works much better for my 2 dogs.
I would definately look at a 1 ton van. Tougher to find the V10 but they're out there.
For a little more room, look at the 15 pax extended van.
Good luck

Lantley wrote:

Fourkidletts wrote:
Thanks again for all the responses, I'm learning so much! It's a lot to sort through.

Wes, you made some points that I have been considering also. We can't afford the best tow vehicle and TT I wish we could. The expy we are looking at is a little over half the price it was new, with only 25k miles on it. We are still doing our research but may likely go with whatever small trailer we can tow with it. Like I mentioned I'm not trying to squeeze us all in a trailer it's just not going to happen. A bathroom, kitchenette, a bed is all we want. Kids love sleeping outside. We are plenty used to car camping just adding a little convenience. (man how i hate that 2 am trek to the bathroom!) And living in sunny california I think I've made peace with the 2x4 and carrying chains. Thanks for the idea about the awning/room attached that's a great idea!

Wes's advice is just plain bad. An Expedition EL does not have the payload capacity to carry your family and tow a trailer. You need a at least a 3/4 ton vehicle.

Your only options are older 3/4 ton Suburban 2500, Excursion V-10 or diesel. Both are only available used.
Or a 3/4 ton full size van.
Educate yourself on towing parameters,GVW,CCC,GAWR, tow rating. Understand what these acronyms mean and how they interact with each other.
When I was towing a 11K GVW trailer I used a Diesel Excursion.
The Excursion is a 3/4 ton vehicle the Expedition EL is not.

Don't rush into this take your time do your own homework. The info is out there. Google is your friend. Do not trust salesman, they are generally not knowledgeable when it comes to towing parameters and are only interested in making a sale vs. selling you the properly rated vehicle.
Experience has taught me to get it right the first time it always cost more to get it right the 2nd time. Good Luck

I agree you will find out an Expy is going to be a poor choice for what you will need and the advice of Wes is IMO ill founded. Even an "X" with six adults, gear and a good sized trailer is going to be cutting it close staying under the TV GVWR. IMO the best by far vehicle is the Van and the New Nissan HD 3500 series looks like a great vehicle for larger families wanting to tow a medium sized (28' or so) trailer. I guess a 2500 Suburban would work, but I'm not that familiar with all it's capacities and drivetrain/rear combos.

Larry

Fourkidletts wrote:
Thanks again for all the responses, I'm learning so much! It's a lot to sort through.

Wes, you made some points that I have been considering also. We can't afford the best tow vehicle and TT I wish we could. The expy we are looking at is a little over half the price it was new, with only 25k miles on it. We are still doing our research but may likely go with whatever small trailer we can tow with it. Like I mentioned I'm not trying to squeeze us all in a trailer it's just not going to happen. A bathroom, kitchenette, a bed is all we want. Kids love sleeping outside. We are plenty used to car camping just adding a little convenience. (man how i hate that 2 am trek to the bathroom!) And living in sunny california I think I've made peace with the 2x4 and carrying chains. Thanks for the idea about the awning/room attached that's a great idea!

Wes's advice is just plain bad. An Expedition EL does not have the payload capacity to carry your family and tow a trailer. You need a at least a 3/4 ton vehicle.

Your only options are older 3/4 ton Suburban 2500, Excursion V-10 or diesel. Both are only available used.
Or a 3/4 ton full size van.
Educate yourself on towing parameters,GVW,CCC,GAWR, tow rating. Understand what these acronyms mean and how they interact with each other.
When I was towing a 11K GVW trailer I used a Diesel Excursion.
The Excursion is a 3/4 ton vehicle the Expedition EL is not.

Don't rush into this take your time do your own homework. The info is out there. Google is your friend. Do not trust salesman, they are generally not knowledgeable when it comes to towing parameters and are only interested in making a sale vs. selling you the properly rated vehicle.
Experience has taught me to get it right the first time it always cost more to get it right the 2nd time. Good Luck

Thanks again for all the responses, I'm learning so much! It's a lot to sort through.

Wes, you made some points that I have been considering also. We can't afford the best tow vehicle and TT I wish we could. The expy we are looking at is a little over half the price it was new, with only 25k miles on it. We are still doing our research but may likely go with whatever small trailer we can tow with it. Like I mentioned I'm not trying to squeeze us all in a trailer it's just not going to happen. A bathroom, kitchenette, a bed is all we want. Kids love sleeping outside. We are plenty used to car camping just adding a little convenience. (man how i hate that 2 am trek to the bathroom!) And living in sunny california I think I've made peace with the 2x4 and carrying chains. Thanks for the idea about the awning/room attached that's a great idea!

TOOBOLD wrote:
Your problem is going to be the Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) of the vehicle. I think you'll be overloaded by the time you add the hitch weight and the weight of all your passengers if you go with an Expedition.

You'll need a vehicle with a high cargo carrying capacity like the 1 ton van, 2500 suburban or the Excursion.

Yup, my daughter and her husband have four kids. The went with a 2500 Yukon. The 1500 just didn't have the extra capacity needed for towing once it was loaded up with people and stuff.

LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
in a 2wd expy without a limited slip differential you now have a ONE wheel drive expy when it gets slick .
"traction Control" is not a limited slip differential .
most expys shipped without a limited slip differential .
Find the code and make sure that the limited slip differential is on the glovebox sticker or wherever ford puts them these days .
LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL " don't leave home without it "

every 4 wheel drive owner can tell you that their pickup / expedition will go from the worst traction on snow / mud to the best traction when they push that little button for 4 wheel drive .
i bought a suburban with 2 wheel drive because i wanted the 454 engine and GM did not offer 4wd with that engine at the time .
i did order positraction but because the weight is light on the rear wheels it still was poor traction at any snow or wet boat ramps or grassy meadows .
i drive the mighty Cascade Mountain range frequently .
I have never seen a 2 wheel drive pickup pull a car out of a snowbank .
with my 4 wd pickups i have pulled many out of snowdrifts just using the yellow nylon strap and a short length of chain .
For that matter I would say that no 2wd pickup could pull a 4wd pickup out of a ditch that the 4wd pickup could not get out by itself .
Scale weight on my diesel gmc are 55 % front and 45 % rear .
With a big family and an equivalent trailer you are best served with a 3 /4 ton with bigger brakes and heavier payload than the lighter weight expedition .

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Cyndi,

Welcome.

I think you've found a great vehicle that will suit your tow vehicle(TV) needs just fine. The Expedition you linked is made for doing what you intend. Don't let some folks here discourage you with woeful tales of absolutely needing a bigger truck and huge camper, costing way more money than your budget may include.

It sounds to me like you have already carefully thought this out, part of which included checking with a camping forum (here) for more opinions. You need to know that the enthusiastic RV folks here naturally tend to overdo it sometimes. Forgive us. In some cases they are correct when new members have totally unrealistic expectations such as using a small Ford Explorer, or tiny Escape for huge campers.

You've already stated that the intention is to pull a medium-sized camper (maybe 24-26 feet?) and the Expy should easily do this and haul the family too.

Need more sleeping room? You can add an awning screen-room/wall-tent to the side of a moderate camper and sleep another 10 people if you like (and, as you said, some kids don't mind a canvas roof). They would not have to walk outside in the night/rain to run to the camper restroom for instance, since such a fabric room directly adjoins the camper. A common 16 foot awning makes into a huge 8 by 16 foot room and the screen is handy if the bugs are crazy.

Another bonus advantage to the 2-wheel drive 1/2 ton SUV you've chosen is that it will get reasonable fuel economy when just traveling without the camper. The towing mileage will almost be exactly the same when pulling a camper with any other gas truck, or SUV, but not quite as good as with a diesel. But diesels often cost so much more that the slightly improved diesel fuel mileage never pays for itself unless one drives a lot of miles like commercial trucks.

One of the advantages of 2 wheel drive, vs 4-wheel drive, is better fuel economy, and unless you plan to be offroad a lot, you will very seldom ever use the added traction of 4 wheel drive. Besides, an under-$200 investment of rear tire chains will give you more traction than plain-tired 4 wheel drive if you should happen to camp off pavement and have to leave in snow, or mud after a heavy rain. It is not unusual for a 2 wheel drive with chains to pull a 4 wheel drive out since not many think they need tire chains with 4 wheel drive.

I know from experience that it is often one spouse that carries the inspiration more than the other, to "go for it", to camp, and enjoy the close natural family bonding that the outdoor experience creates. I wish you the best of luck to work together to achieve this remarkable tradition. You won't be sorry.

Wes
...

I have to disagree with you on this one. An expedition going to be enough vehicle for 6 people and a 25' trailer. Expedition has 1600 lbs payload just people will eat up 900 lbs now they are at 700 lbs remaining take away 650lbs for tongue weight on a 5000 lb trailer and you have 50 lbs of payload. That gives you 8 gallons of gas before you're over your gvwr.

I'm not even going to touch the 4wd comments as they are irreverent. The vehicle most are recommending are the 1 ton vans that are only 2wd.

I'm not saying you couldn't get away with it but it probably won't be fun to drive