Forum Discussion
- The government isn't telling them what to make. They set the target (with input from the automakers) and the automakers decide how to meet that target. If FCA can't meet that target, which they've had a long time to plan for, that's nothing but poor planning on their part. If they put more effort into building desirable small cars (they've gotten better!) meeting CAFE targets would be achievable.
carringb wrote:
The government isn't telling them what to make. They set the target (with input from the automakers) and the automakers decide how to meet that target. If FCA can't meet that target, which they've had a long time to plan for, that's nothing but poor planning on their part. If they put more effort into building desirable small cars (they've gotten better!) meeting CAFE targets would be achievable.
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon? That's why everyone started driving SUVs. Now they want to outlaw SUVs.Terryallan wrote:
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon?
Oh really? I can't tell if you're joking or not.
PS - Wagons aren't slow anymore. Ford Flex does 0-60 in 5.5 sec stock, and can do low 12's in the quarter mile with some programming.
E65 AMG SportWagen does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.- The real story here is the lobbyists that work for the car companies, namely Toyota that have so many politicians in there pockets that the cafe standards and the credits involved are so highly tilted in there favor its ridiculous. Of course I know that all car companies have lobbys working for them. I also know that Chrysler has made mistakes and bad management decisions as has GM, but some of these standards are highly "tilted" toward a few companies. I wish I was computer literate enough to provide a link but its out there online to be viewed. Our politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
Bluhorn wrote:
The real story here is the lobbyists that work for the car companies, namely Toyota that have so many politicians in there pockets that the cafe standards and the credits involved are so highly tilted in there favor its ridiculous. Of course I know that all car companies have lobbys working for them. I also know that Chrysler has made mistakes and bad management decisions as has GM, but some of these standards are highly "tilted" toward a few companies. I wish I was computer literate enough to provide a link but its out there online to be viewed. Our politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
And so are our voters!carringb wrote:
Terryallan wrote:
you do know The Gov outlawed the Station wagon?
Oh really? I can't tell if you're joking or not.
PS - Wagons aren't slow anymore. Ford Flex does 0-60 in 5.5 sec stock, and can do low 12's in the quarter mile with some programming.
E65 AMG SportWagen does 0-60 in 3.9 sec.
Talking about the real station wagons. Not the cross over wagon. Remember the Olds Vista cruiser. I remember the debate on Cspan when they regulated working station wagons out of existance. Remember those wagons could tow a real TT, as well as any of todays 1500 trucks, and haul the family along as well. None of those in your pictures can do that. On a lighter note. the real wagons are highly sought after. If you can find a Vista Cruiser, Or any of the real Station Wagons. You can turn a tidy profit.
Those in your pic look nice. But can't do half what a 9 passenger station wagon could do.- Those wagons were based on the day's huge sedans with big block engines. You can't buy them any more either and who would want to. Today's wagons are based on today's sedans.
Terryallan wrote:
Talking about the real station wagons. Not the cross over wagon. Remember the Olds Vista cruiser. I remember the debate on Cspan when they regulated working station wagons out of existance. Remember those wagons could tow a real TT, as well as any of todays 1500 trucks, and haul the family along as well. None of those in your pictures can do that. On a lighter note. the real wagons are highly sought after. If you can find a Vista Cruiser, Or any of the real Station Wagons. You can turn a tidy profit.
Those in your pic look nice. But can't do half what a 9 passenger station wagon could do.
Really? You think a 70' barge wagon with underpowered oversized cast iron motors can tow better than today's half-ton pickups? Even the base non-turbo V6 in the Flex puts out more power than the old big-blocks used to. The Mercedes probably puts out double the HP.
The Flex has the same footprint (within 1") of the Expedition. And apparently families do tow with them.
I won't argue that regulation changes may have impacted wagons at the time, but fuel prices probably did too. I'm pretty sure there wasn't some law passed that said "no more station wagons". Their real death blow undoubtedly was a result of the SUV trend.- Once you drive a vehicle with a true big block and a towing gear you'll see how much better they tow! And it will be towing quite a bit more than what's in your pictures!
There is something to be said for an engine that can accelerate without downshifting! ib516 wrote:
The success of Ram trucks will hurt them. Seems silly, but that's the way it goes.
They have to build and sell more small cars. The new Chrysler 200 is a good start.
Kinda true, that's why Toyota will sell a Prius and make $500 so they can sell more Tundras and make 5 grand.
