Forum Discussion
- I guess people think just because something has pushrods its old outdated technology?
You know overhead cams aren't exactly a new development either, right?
OHC engines designs are almost as old as pushrod setups. - Isn't the 6.2 a more advanced designed engine then the new 7.3?
- The 7.3 should be ideal for towing as it produces more low end Torque.....however, it's an old tech push rod designed engine.
carringb wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
That is true if the torque converter was locked.
I believe the 6R140 locks in all gears (although 1st only in M mode I believe) and stays locked to 900 RPM. I suspect the 10R140 will have similar programming. Of course... we'll see!
Yes, it will lock at lower rpms where it is creating much less power than it does at peak(5,500 rpm). However, in order for it to lock in 5th at peak power, the truck will have to be traveling at 96 mph. And if this 2020 truck is like all Fords I have owned, it will hit its governor at 95 mph. This is why I said any gear past 4th will put you at a speed over the truck's governed speed to be locked at peak power.
The issue is not that whether it locks in a certain gear or not, it is the rpm it has to lock at for peak power.ShinerBock wrote:
That is true if the torque converter was locked.
I believe the 6R140 locks in all gears (although 1st only in M mode I believe) and stays locked to 900 RPM. I suspect the 10R140 will have similar programming. Of course... we'll see!carringb wrote:
Torque gets you going, HP tells you how fast you can go.
Torque can be multiplied. HP can't.
At see level, if Ford made a 440 hp version of the 7.3L, it would pull hills at exactly the same speed as the current 6.7L. Because the 6.7L makes more torque, it will accelerate a heavy load quicker than the 7.3L, unless Ford puts in much lower rear gears, to make the Tractive Force (engine torque * transmission reduction ratio * differential reduction div by tire radius) equivalent.
This new engine has some design features to allow for future power increases. My suspicion is that whenever the 6.7L gets a hp bump, this motor will too. They'll reserve the top HP rating for their premium (i.e. high margin) 6.7L, while keeping the 7.3L numbers competitive with other gas motors.
That is true if the torque converter was locked. The torque converter also multiplies torque when unlocked, but not horsepower. In fact you loose anywhere between 10-40% of engine horsepower when the TC isn't locked. Most people do not take this into account and is why I say it is not just about how much that is important, but when.
If the 10 speed gearing with this 7.3L is the same as the one in the F150 and it comes with a 3.73 rear gear, then the third gear is the farthest you can go with the TC being locked the closest to max hp and torque while maintaining a reasonable towing speed. In 2nd, peak power(5,500 rpm) is achieved at 50 mph, in third it is 69 mph, and 4th is 84 mph. You will traveling too fast past the trucks governor to be locked at peak power in any gear past this.
How much horsepower is lost when unlocked depends on many variables such as the efficiency and stall speed of the converter in stock form. The fluid's viscosity also has a major impact on how much power is getting past the TC is as well. Generally a higher viscosity(to a point) means it is more efficient while a lower viscosity will make it less efficient. The fluid looses viscosity the hotter it gets(towing situations) and over time as it breaks down.
Since diesels generally peak at much lower rpms, their power and torque is usable in more gears and at more speeds with the TC locked sending full engine power past the TC.RoyJ wrote:
dodge guy wrote:
Apparently you don't know the inner workings or physics of the inside of a transmission. Just dropping a gear doesn't do anything other than make you spin more rpm and at a lower speed. With still the same output at the rear axle. If you change the rear axle ratio you will effectively change each ratio in the transmission. Not going to get into it here, but that's exactly how it works.
I'll try to explain this way:
If I put a 2:1 gear reducer behind the 7.3 gas without telling you, guess what the engine now puts out?
430hp @ 2750 rpm (5500 divided by 2), and 950 lb-ft torque @ 2000 rpm.
Do you think the truck will magically tow better?
Yes, better gearing will tow better. Glad you now understand!- Torque gets you going, HP tells you how fast you can go.
Torque can be multiplied. HP can't.
At see level, if Ford made a 440 hp version of the 7.3L, it would pull hills at exactly the same speed as the current 6.7L. Because the 6.7L makes more torque, it will accelerate a heavy load quicker than the 7.3L, unless Ford puts in much lower rear gears, to make the Tractive Force (engine torque * transmission reduction ratio * differential reduction div by tire radius) equivalent.
This new engine has some design features to allow for future power increases. My suspicion is that whenever the 6.7L gets a hp bump, this motor will too. They'll reserve the top HP rating for their premium (i.e. high margin) 6.7L, while keeping the 7.3L numbers competitive with other gas motors. dodge guy wrote:
Apparently you don't know the inner workings or physics of the inside of a transmission. Just dropping a gear doesn't do anything other than make you spin more rpm and at a lower speed. With still the same output at the rear axle. If you change the rear axle ratio you will effectively change each ratio in the transmission. Not going to get into it here, but that's exactly how it works.
I'll try to explain this way:
If I put a 2:1 gear reducer behind the 7.3 gas without telling you, guess what the engine now puts out?
430hp @ 2750 rpm (5500 divided by 2), and 950 lb-ft torque @ 2000 rpm.
Do you think the truck will magically tow better?LanceRKeys wrote:
A lot can be learned by riding a 10 speed bike up a hill and playing with the “gears” your transmission and rear end work the same way as the front and rear gear set on a bike.
Very good. A simple statement most people should be able to understand.
