Forum Discussion
spud1957 wrote:
Sooooo....great numbers for the 7.3 huh?
I think that's what this thread was about.
Yeah, and the Tesla semi thread was about a semi. This is probably not the best forum for people who don't like things going off topic because it happens in about 90% of the threads.- Sooooo....great numbers for the 7.3 huh?
I think that's what this thread was about. Groover wrote:
"In fact, the US's NOx limit is 30 times lower than the EU emissions, and the CO and CO2 limits in the US are much higher than EU. This is why EU diesels do not have to have EGR's like we do in the US which allows them to not only have higher power output, but also better efficiency."
I have found that most people don't seem to be able to understand that just because a lot of something is bad doesn't mean that even a little bit is bad. Heck, some people have died from drinking too much water. Some Americans now suffer from lack of vitamin D and related symptoms because too much sunlight is bad. Moderation is not in our vocabulary anymore. I have long felt that the best way to reduce GHG is to back off on some of the other rules that hurt the efficiency of all ICE engines.
I agree.
Another thing that a lot of people don't understand is that the bureaucrat that thought up the NOx limit for the diesel truck makes to meet, did so without knowing what it would take to achieve such numbers. These numbers are set in stone years before implementation, and manufacturers have to figure out how to meet them. So when they say that diesels have to go from a NOx of 1.2 g/hp-h to .02 g/hp-h, they don't know that they are doing it at the expense of efficiency of all diesels, more oil has to be converter to fuel since these trucks are not as efficient, more pollution from making DEF, more pollution from making DEF jugs, more pollution from DEF plants, more pollution from fleets that deliver DEF, and so on.
Also, just as with most government rules, once they are set in stone, there is no going back or reviewing to verify that the new limits are better for the environment when all things the manufacturers had to do in order to meet these numbers years later are accounted for.- "In fact, the US's NOx limit is 30 times lower than the EU emissions, and the CO and CO2 limits in the US are much higher than EU. This is why EU diesels do not have to have EGR's like we do in the US which allows them to not only have higher power output, but also better efficiency."
I have found that most people don't seem to be able to understand that just because a lot of something is bad doesn't mean that even a little bit is bad. Heck, some people have died from drinking too much water. Some Americans now suffer from lack of vitamin D and related symptoms because too much sunlight is bad. Moderation is not in our vocabulary anymore. I have long felt that the best way to reduce GHG is to back off on some of the other rules that hurt the efficiency of all ICE engines. kw/00 wrote:
Groover wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
kw/00 wrote:
It’s interesting to see automakers put this much emphasis on gas power plants in HD trucks.
It is because the new regulations are adding 8,501-14,000 lb GVWR vehicles to CAFE requirements. Currently these trucks are exempt which is why you don't see fuel mileage stickers for them. This will be changing in the coming years. Ironically they say they are doing it to curb GHG, but our emissions laws favor gasoline engines which emit more GHG.
I suspect that a lot of them are going to end up running CNG which is much better on GHG and most other emissions.
Hmm learn something new each day thanks. So what’s in the future for Diesel engines then? I know Nissan is killing off the 5.0 diesel from their line up. Thoughts guys?
Diesels still have a long way to go especially in the medium/heavy duty world. Putting the ISV 5.0 in a pickup was an afterthought. It was initially designed for certain medium duty applications where space was a concern such as cabover deliver trucks where it is still used.
What is bad for diesels is our emissions laws in the US. People think they are made to help the environment which is false. Gas engines emit more greenhouse gases(GHG) than diesels, but due to things like the VW diesel-gate many people ignorantly think diesels harm the environment more. Diesel emissions are mainly health hazardous with long term exposure(although no different than gasoline engines), but mostly only in places with high population density.
US emissions laws are less stringent on GHG like CO and CO2 which are mainly emitted by gas engines, but are more strict on emissions from diesels such as NOx. In fact, the US's NOx limit is 30 times lower than the EU emissions, and the CO and CO2 limits in the US are much higher than EU. This is why EU diesels do not have to have EGR's like we do in the US which allows them to not only have higher power output, but also better efficiency. Notg only that, but the CAFE fuel economy tests simulations also favor gasoline vehicles as well which is why diesel generally to better than these tests in the real world and gasoline engines don't. To say our laws favor gasoline engines and severely limit diesels would be a huge understatement.
For some odd reason, some bureaucrat(s) at the EPA decided that they were going to be tougher on NOx (which is actually good for the ozone in the stratosphere) than the rest of the first world governments that have emission standards, yet be less strict than the rest on gases emitted by gasoline which are more harmful to the environment. I think there was money exchanged somewhere in that decision, but that is my conspiracy theory since it doesn't make sense. Most just sit back and do whatever the EPA tells them is good and don't question it so I doubt it will ever change.- Diesels make California cringe....and they appear to have clout. Lol
Groover wrote:
ShinerBock wrote:
kw/00 wrote:
It’s interesting to see automakers put this much emphasis on gas power plants in HD trucks.
It is because the new regulations are adding 8,501-14,000 lb GVWR vehicles to CAFE requirements. Currently these trucks are exempt which is why you don't see fuel mileage stickers for them. This will be changing in the coming years. Ironically they say they are doing it to curb GHG, but our emissions laws favor gasoline engines which emit more GHG.
I suspect that a lot of them are going to end up running CNG which is much better on GHG and most other emissions.
Hmm learn something new each day thanks. So what’s in the future for Diesel engines then? I know Nissan is killing off the 5.0 diesel from their line up. Thoughts guys?ShinerBock wrote:
kw/00 wrote:
It’s interesting to see automakers put this much emphasis on gas power plants in HD trucks.
It is because the new regulations are adding 8,501-14,000 lb GVWR vehicles to CAFE requirements. Currently these trucks are exempt which is why you don't see fuel mileage stickers for them. This will be changing in the coming years. Ironically they say they are doing it to curb GHG, but our emissions laws favor gasoline engines which emit more GHG.
I suspect that a lot of them are going to end up running CNG which is much better on GHG and most other emissions.kw/00 wrote:
It’s interesting to see automakers put this much emphasis on gas power plants in HD trucks.
It is because the new regulations are adding 8,501-14,000 lb GVWR vehicles to CAFE requirements. Currently these trucks are exempt which is why you don't see fuel mileage stickers for them. This will be changing in the coming years. Ironically they say they are doing it to curb GHG, but our emissions laws favor gasoline engines which emit more GHG.- Regardless of what’s all above and good info BTW. The new gas engines coming with more HP and TQ plus more gears will provide a better towing experience for those who pull with gas. I am looking forward in seeing the 7.3 with 10 speed and the 6.6 with 6 speeds perform on the IKE. I feel GM will probably go with a 10 speed soon. It’s interesting to see automakers put this much emphasis on gas power plants in HD trucks.
