Ford F250 vs Ram 2500 Gas V8 Drag Race and MPG Battle

transamz9 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Sure, but if you get your 325 HP diesel I get to have my 9.4 liter N/A gas engine with T400. See you at the top. I'll be the person with half a 6 pack drank before you get there. :B

You are saying that higher hp will win gas or diesel. Your 6.0 has more go than my diesel so why won't you do it with your 6.0 against my stock 5.9? I mean you have the advantage by being lighter and more hp.

Because it will not put peak HP down all of the time. Put a 10 speed auto in back of it and it will keep it in the peak HP band enough to kill a diesel. This is the reason manufactures are building mega gear transmissions.

And

because no mountain is at sea level; the place they rate a N/A engines HP. Modern diesels don't have this problem because they have turbos on them which keep them at an artificially sea level or even well below sea level under high boost.


Why are you so afraid of a low compression low torque N/A gasoline engine when you have a torque towing king of a turbo diesel engine? :B

"IF" anyone is interested and has the time to watch some pretty good YouTube videos.....Diesel Power Challenge (2015,2016). These are trucks "driven" to the challenge ( at around 5500 feet elevation near Denver)... But far from stock. However, you get to see towing competition, driving/backing with trailer, 1/8 mile drag race towing 10K lbs., 1/4 mile (just the truck), total fuel used during the multi day competition. Awesome what these "Coal Burners" can do!! :B

My wife enjoyed the videos... For what it's worth! ;)

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Sure, but if you get your 325 HP diesel I get to have my 9.4 liter N/A gas engine with T400. See you at the top. I'll be the person with half a 6 pack drank before you get there. :B

You are saying that higher hp will win gas or diesel. Your 6.0 has more go than my diesel so why won't you do it with your 6.0 against my stock 5.9? I mean you have the advantage by being lighter and more hp.

Sure, but if you get your 325 HP diesel I get to have my 9.4 liter N/A gas engine with T400. See you at the top. I'll be the person with half a 6 pack drank before you get there. :B

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
My old 02 2500HD gasser could edge out my Duramax in a drag. Dont know what I was thinking trading it in cause according to this thread it is a better TV. Cookoo...

Yes, the gas trucks will accelerate better empty. I'll bet these two trucks would beat their diesel counterparts in an empty drag race. Add a 10K trailer and the diesels will leave their gas brothers in the dust (and smoke). :)

It's all about getting HP to the ground and power to weight ratio.

I will give you my 1993 6.5 diesel that puts out 200 HP and 425 ft/lbs and I will drive my gas work truck with a 353 HP 6.0. We will put a 7,000 TT on the back of each.

Who is going to make it to the top of the Davis Dam first?

So diesels tow better hu? LOL

The reason diesels tow so good now days is not because they are diesels, it's because they put out a TON of HP and they have turbo's on them which cause them to lose next to no HP at altitude. On the other side of the coin my 360 HP stock diesel will SMOKE a 295 HP of the same year 5.3 gas engine in a drag race solo or towing.

For the millionth time. It's all about the HP you and put down to the road. Towing, drag race, solo,............it makes no difference.

HP is work being done over time. Whoever does the most work wins! :)

Let's do this but we have to make it more even. Make the trailer a 12000# 5th wheel and I'll drive my 325 go diesel with a 4 speed.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

kzspree320 wrote:
Turtle n peeps - As a very general statement what you says has some merit. The problem is, it's a vast oversimplification to a very complex situation. HP alone is not enough. Torque alone is not enough. Transmission gearing alone is not enough. Rear axle gearing is not enough. The truck programming is not enough. The gas truck that wins the drag race at sea level might not be the same one that wins at 5,000 feet. The fastest to the top of Davis Dam might not be the fastest to the top of the Ike Gauntlet. It's a combination of HP, torque, elevation, transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, truck programming, grade, length of grade, elevation, etc.

If we assume manufacturers using the J2807 standard rate the pickups at the max they can tow at no less than 40 mph up Davis Dam (which is the standard), then why is the Ram with 6.4 hemi and 4.10 rear end (which lost the race) rated to pull 15,640 lbs and the Ford F250 with 6.2 and 3.73 (which is the configuration that won the race) rated to pull 12,600 lbs (both in 4X4 and crew cab configurations). An educated guess would be the Ram would win if pulling 15,000 lbs. If pulling 12,000 lbs who knows.

Again, in general you are right. But if drag racing were the "be all end all", manufacturers are wasting many millions trying to find the best all around combination of factors for towing in a wide variety of situations. I'm done on this subject and stand by my first statement I made when you said "the winner of the drag race would be the first to the top the mountain". That's just wrong. It's a vast oversimplification.

Oversimplification? Yep, I agree.
Sorry, I don't have time to write a book on the subject in this forum and that's about what it would take.

The reason one vehicle might win a tow race up DD but not on Ike is simple; HP to the ground for the length of the test. For some reason it's not putting as much HP to the ground. It really is that simple. It's the same thing if I lose a drag race to a car that weights the same as mine and has the same aero package as mine. He is putting out more HP to the ground than I did. Pure and simple as that. I could snivel that I spun on the line or whatever but the simple fact is the other guy put down more HP than I did for some reason.

In the video I linked the EB put down more HP to the wheels than the ED or the V8 Chevy. It would have done a WHOLE bunch better if they would have had their tow off on the Ike because the EB is turbocharged.

If your comparing a N/A gas to a turbo diesel, it's simple. A N/A engine loses about 3% of it's HP / 1000Ft. If the T-diesel and the gas had the same amount of HP at sea level the gas would lose about 30%+ of it's HP around the top of Ike. That's a BUNCH! The TD would lose next to nothing! That's nothing.

Unless DOT or whoever steps in, this HP thing is going to get very confusing. The manufactures could program an engine to put out 600 HP for one minute and then derate to 400 HP after that. But they will print on the advertisement that their truck will put out 600 HP. They are already doing it with torque to the wheels. Their toy U-joints or axels or anything after the crank can't hold up so they computer limit the torque to the rear wheels so they won't break parts.

Correction, the one that puts the most average hp to the ground will win. The diesels in the HD trucks hit their torque curve very quickly and hold it through the RPM range giving it a lot better chance of having a higher hp average over a period of time.

kzspree320 wrote:
Turtle n peeps - As a very general statement what you says has some merit. The problem is, it's a vast oversimplification to a very complex situation. HP alone is not enough. Torque alone is not enough. Transmission gearing alone is not enough. Rear axle gearing is not enough. The truck programming is not enough. The gas truck that wins the drag race at sea level might not be the same one that wins at 5,000 feet. The fastest to the top of Davis Dam might not be the fastest to the top of the Ike Gauntlet. It's a combination of HP, torque, elevation, transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, truck programming, grade, length of grade, elevation, etc.

If we assume manufacturers using the J2807 standard rate the pickups at the max they can tow at no less than 40 mph up Davis Dam (which is the standard), then why is the Ram with 6.4 hemi and 4.10 rear end (which lost the race) rated to pull 15,640 lbs and the Ford F250 with 6.2 and 3.73 (which is the configuration that won the race) rated to pull 12,600 lbs (both in 4X4 and crew cab configurations). An educated guess would be the Ram would win if pulling 15,000 lbs. If pulling 12,000 lbs who knows.

Again, in general you are right. But if drag racing were the "be all end all", manufacturers are wasting many millions trying to find the best all around combination of factors for towing in a wide variety of situations. I'm done on this subject and stand by my first statement I made when you said "the winner of the drag race would be the first to the top the mountain". That's just wrong. It's a vast oversimplification.

Oversimplification? Yep, I agree.
Sorry, I don't have time to write a book on the subject in this forum and that's about what it would take.

The reason one vehicle might win a tow race up DD but not on Ike is simple; HP to the ground for the length of the test. For some reason it's not putting as much HP to the ground. It really is that simple. It's the same thing if I lose a drag race to a car that weights the same as mine and has the same aero package as mine. He is putting out more HP to the ground than I did. Pure and simple as that. I could snivel that I spun on the line or whatever but the simple fact is the other guy put down more HP than I did for some reason.

In the video I linked the EB put down more HP to the wheels than the ED or the V8 Chevy. It would have done a WHOLE bunch better if they would have had their tow off on the Ike because the EB is turbocharged.

If your comparing a N/A gas to a turbo diesel, it's simple. A N/A engine loses about 3% of it's HP / 1000Ft. If the T-diesel and the gas had the same amount of HP at sea level the gas would lose about 30%+ of it's HP around the top of Ike. That's a BUNCH! The TD would lose next to nothing! That's nothing.

Unless DOT or whoever steps in, this HP thing is going to get very confusing. The manufactures could program an engine to put out 600 HP for one minute and then derate to 400 HP after that. But they will print on the advertisement that their truck will put out 600 HP. They are already doing it with torque to the wheels. Their toy U-joints or axels or anything after the crank can't hold up so they computer limit the torque to the rear wheels so they won't break parts.

ScottG wrote:

john&bet wrote:
I for one do not care.

Your not the only one.
If I want to drag race (I dont) I'll buy a fast car.

I would care if they were racing while pulling 10,000 pound trailers. As for the comment about fast cars, I remember a Road & Track magazine sitting in an auto repair shop a few years ago. It was comparing the 0 to 60 times of a number of cars including a Corvette and a Viper. They threw in a pickup truck. I think they had done some work on all of them so maybe it wasn't a realistic comparison. The pickup truck won - by a lot. It had a 0 to 60 time of under 4 seconds as I recall.

I love these threads.

Someone posts something for fun and it turns into a war. LOL

Turtle n peeps - As a very general statement what you says has some merit. The problem is, it's a vast oversimplification to a very complex situation. HP alone is not enough. Torque alone is not enough. Transmission gearing alone is not enough. Rear axle gearing is not enough. The truck programming is not enough. The gas truck that wins the drag race at sea level might not be the same one that wins at 5,000 feet. The fastest to the top of Davis Dam might not be the fastest to the top of the Ike Gauntlet. It's a combination of HP, torque, elevation, transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, truck programming, grade, length of grade, elevation, etc.

If we assume manufacturers using the J2807 standard rate the pickups at the max they can tow at no less than 40 mph up Davis Dam (which is the standard), then why is the Ram with 6.4 hemi and 4.10 rear end (which lost the race) rated to pull 15,640 lbs and the Ford F250 with 6.2 and 3.73 (which is the configuration that won the race) rated to pull 12,600 lbs (both in 4X4 and crew cab configurations). An educated guess would be the Ram would win if pulling 15,000 lbs. If pulling 12,000 lbs who knows.

Again, in general you are right. But if drag racing were the "be all end all", manufacturers are wasting many millions trying to find the best all around combination of factors for towing in a wide variety of situations. I'm done on this subject and stand by my first statement I made when you said "the winner of the drag race would be the first to the top the mountain". That's just wrong. It's a vast oversimplification.