fuel additives

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
I've been running probably over 90% ExxonMobil diesel efficient diesel in my truck for a few years now. I believe it keeps your injectors cleaner and emission system cleaner than any other diesel on the market.

Diesel Efficient 1

Diesel Efficient 2

Diesel Efficient 3

This fuel was validated at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio Texas.

Ironically my car does not like this fuel. Not sure why because it is a good fuel, but my car has a noticeable vibration at idle every time I put this stuff in it. My truck doesn't care as much about fuel, but the CP4.1 and piezo injectors in my car are finicky as hell about fuel. Probably because it is tuned to run on 50 cetane fuel.

I have a few friends that work at SWR. One tests fuels and chemicals and the other does military projects and research that he can't talk about. My wife was going to work there as a chemist, but became a pharmaceutical scientist instead since it paid a lot more with better benefits.

Interesting feedback... The thing I like about it is my truck regens less with this fuel.

TravelinDog wrote:
To Devo the dog. Your post show exactly what I said about fuel gelling in extreme temps.
Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

You should work on your writing and composition. You clearly stated the following (a copy/paste):

"There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind."

Where do you say that some owner's manuals might allow an additive of some kind? You didn't, even if you whispered it.

LOL

TravelinDog wrote:
There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind.

LOL. Worth posting again, but a Ford owner's manual.

TravelinDog wrote:
Your fuel may meet the standard, you don't know. I have yet to see any diesel pumps that show the cetane rating anywhere.
Using additives because your fuel "may" not meet standards? Nuts!
Bigfoot "may" exist but probably not.

ShinerBock-From your own cut and paste article.
"Cummins® engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially
available diesel fuel as listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications;
therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.
In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are
peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends
consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Inc. Service Engineering Department prior to
the use of fuel additives.

Actually, most states publish their random fuel sampling data and provide it free. Below is an example report from 2014 for the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality.

2014 Summer Fuel field Study

As you can see in the report, there are several samples and regions below Texas's 48 cetane and other requirements. I have seen the same kind of reports from others states when I worked at Cummins showing samples that were even below the federal 40 cetane and other requirements. So yes, the data is there if you look and there are many places under Cummins' minimum requirements. Therefore additives may be needed to bring the fuel up to spec as stated by Cummins.

Also, you should read the whole service bulletin (and paragraph you just quoted) instead of cherry-picking data for your own predetermined beliefs. Just because it is not their general policy not to recommend additives without consulting a fuel supplier or a Cummins engineer first(which is lawyer-speak to cover themselves), does not mean they don't recommend them in certain situations as stated in the additives section of that service bulletin. Plus this recommendation changed in 2017 with..... LINK

Again, I KNOW they work because I was a part of the fuel/additive testing when I worked for Cummins. What diesel engine manufacturer and technical research did you do to come up with your theory that they don't?

To Devo the dog. Your post show exactly what I said about fuel gelling in extreme temps.
Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

Your fuel may meet the standard, you don't know. I have yet to see any diesel pumps that show the cetane rating anywhere.
Using additives because your fuel "may" not meet standards? Nuts!
Bigfoot "may" exist but probably not.

ShinerBock-From your own cut and paste article.
"Cummins® engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially
available diesel fuel as listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications;
therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.
In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are
peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends
consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Inc. Service Engineering Department prior to
the use of fuel additives.

Finally was able to find a PDF version of this service bulletin from my Quickserve. Many times I can see these service bulletins on my Cummins Quickserve login, but I cannot post them on forums because I have no means of making them web viewable

Here is what Cummins says on the matter...

Fuels for Cummins Engines

Note that they say this right before they list the minimum fuel requirements.

"This section presents the Cummins Inc. required fuel specifications.
Fuels meeting national and international specifications can be used if they observe the
specifications listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications. Cummins®
engines will operate satisfactorily on fuels meeting all the properties listed in Table 1;
however, fuels meeting only the required specifications will not give the same level of performance,
efficiency, reliability, or maintenance costs as premium fuels
"

Looking at the table, the minimum cetane for temps above 32F is 42 and 45 below 32F. The federal standard that most states use(besides Texas and California) has a minimum cetane rating of 40. So in these other states, you may even be using fuel that doesn't meet Cummins' minimum fuel quality and therefore additional additives may be needed to bring that fuel up to these standards.

They clearly state that a greater cetane rating will improve performance and efficiency. They also discuss carbon buildup and what it does to the engine.

Here is what they say regarding additives.

"Cummins® engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially
available diesel fuel as listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications;
therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.
In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are
peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends
consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Inc. Service Engineering Department prior to
the use of fuel additives.
Among the situations where additives can prove useful are the following:
1. A cetane improver additive can be used with low cetane fuels.
2. A pour point depressant or flow improver additive can help with high pour point fuels.
3. A wax crystal modifier can help with fuels with high cold filter plugging points (CFPP).
4. An anti-icer can help prevent ice formation in wet fuel during cold weather.
5. An anti-oxidant or storage stability additive can help with fuel system deposits and poor
storage stability.
6. A lubricity enhancer can be used to increase the lubricity of fuels so that they meet the
specifications in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications.
7. A biocide or fungicide can help when fuels are prone to contamination with bacteria or
fungus. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Cummins
Filtration™ Kathon FP 1.5 Microbicide (quart - CC2661 and gallon - CC2663) is the only
product approved by Cummins Inc. to treat fuels with biological contamination problems.
8. Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588) can be used
with low cetane fuels to boost cetane values. Although other additives are available that
will boost the cetane number, Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel
Additive is the only diesel fuel additive approved by Cummins Inc. for cetane number
improvement.
9. Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner Base (pint - CC2598, quart - CC2597, 5
gallons - CC2549, and 55 gallons - CC2550) and Asphaltene Conditioner Concentrate
(2.5 gallons - CC2596, Bulk - CC2559) or Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season
Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588), can be used to clean carbon deposits from injectors and
improve lubricity in fuels that fall below the recommended lubricity specification in Table
1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications. Although other additives can
provide some performance benefits, Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner, and
Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive are the only diesel fuel additives approved by
Cummins Inc. for use with fuels that do not meet the lubricity specification in Table 1...
"

BTW, this service bulletin was updated in 2017, but nothing changed in regards to what is quoted.

TravelinDog wrote:
There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind.

LOL. Bye-don for brains.

TravelinDog wrote:

IdaD wrote:
Not me, but I've never used that kind of stuff on anything. It's always just seemed like a waste of money.

There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind. The only time an additive may be helpful is in extremely cold climates to prevent fuel gelling.
People who use additive use them because the BELIEVE it is helpful.
As long as the do not cause damage I guess there is no harm in wasting those $$.

The manual for my 6.7 Ford diesel does include recommendations for fuel additives. You’re welcome.

TravelinDog wrote:

IdaD wrote:
Not me, but I've never used that kind of stuff on anything. It's always just seemed like a waste of money.

There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind. The only time an additive may be helpful is in extremely cold climates to prevent fuel gelling.
People who use additive use them because the BELIEVE it is helpful.
As long as the do not cause damage I guess there is no harm in wasting those $$.

I use additives sometimes and I don't BELEIVE they work, I KNOW. I seen the effects of proper additives an a lower quality fuel has on an engine with my own eyes when I worked at Cummins and from research done by a friend who works at SWR. If additives do not work, then why do top fuel brands add additives to their fuel? No name brands general add the least possible to meet regulations.

So where did you work or what research have you seen/done to know they don't work?