Gas engines in school buses coming back?

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Double post. Again. Board is acting weird.

SidecarFlip wrote:

Old Days wrote:
Here in Colorado they buy a lot of buses that run on propane. The poor diesel engine is being killed by emissions.

EXACTLY. Tier 4 emissions and lowest bidder components are killing a reliable engine and causing maintenance costs to skyrocket.

The day of the end of the diesel is coming and it won't be far off unless manufacturers get their chit together.

I won't buy anything Tier 4. Just bought another farm tractor, a used Pre 4 unit. In the past I always bought new but not anymore and the used pre 4 market for ag tractors is tight. You pay a premium price used to get a pre 4 engine now.

The Freightliner dealership I retired from, a full 75% of their warranty and non warranty work was related to Tier 4 component failures and electronic control systems. Give me a mechanically injected no emission component engine anyday.

Caterpillar was smart. They got out of the on road engine business when all this **** started. They knew what was coming and didn't want any part of it.

Here it is all Diesel and becoming more so for places outside NA

rjstractor wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:

hvac wrote:
I remember our bus in upstate New York.Mid 70s. GM v6 and manual tranny. Our driver was an older woman, angry, and would shift well past red line every time. I think the engine was a kid she wanted beat on. She scared me. I always felt bad for that v6...

Sounds like we are about the same age and I have the EXACT same memory. There's nothing like an 87# little old lady banging through gears on a monster bus, all while screaming at kids. I always remember our driver standing directly outside the bus (at school no less) sucking down cigarettes until the last possible moment she had to jump in the bus and start driving. She smelled like equal parts Vantage menthols and cheap vodka. Ah, the good old days!

As a little kid I was terrified of loud noises. I still have vivid memories of being traumatized by a '66 Gillig school bus powered by a Waukesha inline-6 with worn rings and bad valves, and how that thing would backfire like a cannon every time old Tessie the bus driver would grab a gear. I can still see the fire shooting out the exhaust pipe! :)

A lot of rat rod owners would love to have that backfiring and shooting flames out of the exhaust pipe.

mtofell1 wrote:

hvac wrote:
I remember our bus in upstate New York.Mid 70s. GM v6 and manual tranny. Our driver was an older woman, angry, and would shift well past red line every time. I think the engine was a kid she wanted beat on. She scared me. I always felt bad for that v6...

Sounds like we are about the same age and I have the EXACT same memory. There's nothing like an 87# little old lady banging through gears on a monster bus, all while screaming at kids. I always remember our driver standing directly outside the bus (at school no less) sucking down cigarettes until the last possible moment she had to jump in the bus and start driving. She smelled like equal parts Vantage menthols and cheap vodka. Ah, the good old days!

As a little kid I was terrified of loud noises. I still have vivid memories of being traumatized by a '66 Gillig school bus powered by a Waukesha inline-6 with worn rings and bad valves, and how that thing would backfire like a cannon every time old Tessie the bus driver would grab a gear. I can still see the fire shooting out the exhaust pipe! :)

danrclem wrote:
Maybe Ford is making the 7.3 gas because they realize that gas engines are replacing diesels and they want to have a good engine to fit that market.

Probably because they have to compete with GM and Ram new offerings.

ACZL wrote:
IMO, with Ford announcing their new 7.3 gasser, am thinking those in the know just know that if this gasser is based (probly not.....but just sayin) off their old 7.3 diesel and how the 7.3 diesel is highly sought after/regarded, then the gas version should knock it right out of the ballpark. That is if the 7.3 gasser is what is used in/for buses.

Pretty sure the only thing this new 7.3 has in common with the 7.3 diesel is the displacement.

It's a whole new animal.

Judging by the info that has been released by Ford, this is going to be available in the medium duty platforms for sure. It would be no surprise to see it in buses.

I'm still waiting for the power numbers and pricing to be announced!

Maybe Ford is making the 7.3 gas because they realize that gas engines are replacing diesels and they want to have a good engine to fit that market.

hvac wrote:
I remember our bus in upstate New York.Mid 70s. GM v6 and manual tranny. Our driver was an older woman, angry, and would shift well past red line every time. I think the engine was a kid she wanted beat on. She scared me. I always felt bad for that v6...

Sounds like we are about the same age and I have the EXACT same memory. There's nothing like an 87# little old lady banging through gears on a monster bus, all while screaming at kids. I always remember our driver standing directly outside the bus (at school no less) sucking down cigarettes until the last possible moment she had to jump in the bus and start driving. She smelled like equal parts Vantage menthols and cheap vodka. Ah, the good old days!

Great discussion gang and love all the various replies. The fuel tank post prompted a memory of when I drove school buses back in the mid 80's. I learned back then that the area around the fuel tank was like Ft Knox for the safety cage was unreal. Looking at the replies and initial cost of either gas or diesel and then projected savings or cost of either, advancement of gas engines since the early/mid 80's, I can see where gas would be a more viable option to go with now. IMO, with Ford announcing their new 7.3 gasser, am thinking those in the know just know that if this gasser is based (probly not.....but just sayin) off their old 7.3 diesel and how the 7.3 diesel is highly sought after/regarded, then the gas version should knock it right out of the ballpark. That is if the 7.3 gasser is what is used in/for buses. Have no idea what bus mfr's are going to uses for gas motors. Field is limited. Going back to when I drove buses again, I hated the gas engines. Most were IH, but had a couple Fords and I think a lolely old GMC as a last resort/back-up.

rjstractor wrote:

whjco wrote:
Here in Kentucky, all full-sized school buses are diesel powered. After a retired gas-powered ex-school bus was hit head on by a drunk driver near Carrolton, KY 31 years ago, puncturing the gas tank and bursting into flame and killing 27 people, all school buses are now diesel powered.

Comparing safety standards that were in effect 50+ years ago doesn't really apply today. Diesel may have a much higher flash point than gas, but also has a lower autoignition temperature and when it does ignite it burns ferociously. With the current safety standards on school buses, fuel type is not a factor.

If anybody still remembers, this had less to do with the fuel, than the complete lack of safety standards in the school bus fleet at the time. Roll overs would result in the roof easily splitting open and tossing kids out. Fuel tanks were sheet metal bombs, mounted outside of the frame rails, with a thin skirt of body metal hiding them from view. I clearly remember buses being removed from service, and new ones arriving with massive cages surrounding the tanks, and improved body integrity standards.