Skimore: No, didn't weigh without loading. If I had thought we would be where we are on weights, I would have. It'd be a bit of a pain now to empty everything and then drive to the scale and back. I'm making an edumacated guess that it's 200-300 lbs. Possibly a little more? Agree, it would be interesting to know what the weight of just our cargo is.
The 960 lb tongue weight is from calculating after 3 passes through the scale. We had purchased 800 lb spring bars for our WDH and they did not work with this much tongue wt. Bought 1200 lb bars and weight transfer is good now. Another reason to know your actual numbers.
I can tell you that we have been through the wringer with weight issues and frame strength. I was just out looking at our frame. The upper & lower flanges and web (the vertical/center part of beam) are made from 1/8" sheet steel welded together. If you sight down them from front to back, there is an amazing degree of sag in them. They sag around where the spring hanger brackets are. I just noticed a big hole in the web on one side for the slide mechanism. It sure appears to me to be inadequately reinforced by what I am used to in structural engineering practices in building construction. Not impressed there. Also, the slide mechanism is rubbing on one side of the hole in the beam. The hole needs enlarging on one side. If done (dealer I assume?) this would further weaken the beam. The entire beam seems very inadequate for the static and dynamic loads imposed on it. Where the spring hangers attach, the lower flanges are deformed and look wavy up and down near them. The spring hangers actually sway left and right when towing the trailer.
As I said earlier, this is not unique to our trailer. I had a look at trailers on another dealer's lot with different brands and saw the same thing. Problem is, there are no design standards that can be enforced and Lippert can produce whatever they want without any accountability.
From my viewpoint, knowing what I know now, I have to say that anyone who ignores weight limits and capacities and thinks they're perfectly okay, is playing with fire. It's not really that hard to check your actual weights, so why not play it safe? Knowledge is power. Empower yourself! If you don't have the TV or trailer yet, ask around on the forums to find what people are finding for actual weights.
We upgraded from a 1/2 ton to 3/4, and even if we could have towed our new TT with the 1/2 ton, the 3/4 ton is sooo much nicer to use for towing. Everything about it is more heavy duty and we don't have to worry about over-stressing it. The stiffer suspension really helps with handling and sway. We have good spare capacity in the truck. We just bought a load of firewood while away camping and packed it in as tight as we could. Much of it was wet. I'm guessing we had close to 1,000 lbs of payload on top of the tongue wt. Could not have done that with a 1/2 ton. Some want to load a quad or motorbike in the bed. Same issue. Good to have spare payload for when you need it. If you're on the fence when buying a new one, I'd go to 3/4 ton.
Weight info. from KZ's website is below. Don't think I have seen other manufacturers include this on their website or elsewhere. Funny, they tell you all this but then build them with little actual cargo capacity and they weigh almost as much as the GVWR. Plus the other issues I've mentioned....
There's two components to the weight issue on trailers. One is the structural capacity of the frame and the other is the weight that the RV manufacturer builds on top of it and the GVWR they assign to it. I don't think axle capacities are an issue other than they *could* install higher load capacity axles. But if the frame is like rubber, that won't help anything.
It just does not make sense. KZ clearly says not to overload the RV. But they build them with a fresh water tank, grey tank (2 for us) and black tank. But if you tow with anyone of them full, your RV WILL be
overloaded. Tow with all 4 tanks full, and you will be grossly overloaded. I guess they don't make their RVs for dry camping?? :?
Not trying to specifically knock KZ. This is an issue I see happening with other brands and models and those that use Lippert frames. Lippert has about 95% share of the frame market unfortunately.
I'd be interested in hearing about anyone else's similar experiences.
VEHICLE LOADING - Every effort has been made to provide the greatest number of options for the recreational owner. Each owner is responsible to select loads allowing the recreational vehicle to remain within the manufacturer's specified chassis weight limits. Do not overload the recreational vehicle.
UNLOADED VEHICLE WEIGHT (UVW) - The typical weight of this trailer as built at the factory. The UVW does not include cargo, LP gas, fresh water, options or dealer-installed accessories.
GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING (GVWR) - The maximum permissible weight of the trailer, including the UVW plus passengers, all cargo, personal items, fluids, options and dealer-installed accessories. The GVRW is equal to or greater than the sum of the UVW and the NCC.
NET CARRYING CAPACITY (NCC) - The maximum weight of all passengers, personal items, fresh water, food, tools, LP gas, other cargo and dealer-installed accessories* that can be carried by the trailer. NCC is equal to or less than GVWR minus UVW.
* The addition of options will decrease the NCC.
