Forum Discussion
- I call it callling out liars cheaters and deceivers. To each their own.
Funny, not a single post from travelnutz in this GM thread.....he always seems to find a way to post in the RAM threads....:h ib516 wrote:
8iron wrote:
At the end of the day, I fail to see how any of this actually affects the trucks that you and I drive? It's all a marketing game of one-upsmanship (with fine print) isn't it?
So you just accept lying and cheating as normal and expected? I expect honesty.
I really hate to break this to those here that assumed absolute honesty from advertising and marketing but....brochure payload is was never attainable in all but a very, very few trucks on the local lot. Axe body spray will not have young ladies clamouring after you, eating at Subway will not make you lose 300# like Jared did, Campbell's soup is not part of an NFL players game routine. I could go on forever but hopefully those that assumed the auto industry was different know not to believe everything they see or read.larry barnhart wrote:
If anybody is happy with their truck why do all of the stories above matter.
I call it whining. Have a good Labor day everybody. Have fun and don't think about trucks.
chevman
Agree with you 100% Larry, if one is happy with their truck, all the negatives one may read about them, all the "dig's" and "slam's" that are posted about ALL of the Big Three's trucks doesn't mean squat. It's your truck, if it's a good truck and does all you need or want it to do with little to no trouble.....doesn't matter what anyone writes or say's about it....sure isn't going to make any difference in what I'm going to buy, I'll go by my own experiences thus far.
oh,I too Hope all of you have a Great Labor Day weekend:) I'll be thinking about what football games to watch, when best time to go swimming and what lures to use while fishing:)
Jim- They are NOT liars...directly that is...there are laws and the one with
the big teeth (fines, recalls, jail time) is "Truth in Advertising"
I do demand and expect truth, but also understand how marketing works.
As well as engineer and design product teams. Guess what? Lawyers
are inter-mixed throughout those processes...as well as "Bean Counter
Management" who only manage the bottom line...no longer does management
(generally) manage their 'product'...
Been saying that 'curb' is the 'stripper' for years and years...along
with that also said it's in the fine print, of which is where they
"told you so"...
Also, the definition of 'curb' is in a fuzzy area. Argued with one
guy here who thought is has to be a model offered for sale. He could
NOT get it, that it was a custom model NEVER offered for sale
Took a few years to finally get folks to understand that they used a
150 lb driver and is from the insurance actuary tables for the 'normal' man...
Bottom line....it is 'us' who allows this, as it works so well
How many times do you read here and other portals of someone who
expout their ratings numbers in an absolute term...or that they
bought the 'King of the Hill' XYZ truck/SUV because they believe the
marketing verbiage
Demographics studies are spot on and that is these targeted marketing
spiels...on target...which are the bulls eye's on those folks back sides
On testing and certifications (they are different). VERY expensive and
more so for the smaller OEMs...but...that will then go into having to
explain how it is done...it's not just load up 'one' vehicle and run
down to the track with some sensors. :R - Not wanting to keep this story going but some rv's including MH's have weight rating for cargo. In little print you can see if you add the awning it weight this much. Same for thermal windows etc. Little print is the key I think for nobody seeing the real numbers.
chevman ib516 wrote:
I call it callling out liars cheaters and deceivers. To each their own.
Funny, not a single post from travelnutz in this GM thread.....he always seems to find a way to post in the RAM threads....:h
ib516 don't go into politics. You will have trouble with your thinking as I would. Liars suck.
chevmanlarry barnhart wrote:
Not wanting to keep this story going but some rv's including MH's have weight rating for cargo. In little print you can see if you add the awning it weight this much. Same for thermal windows etc. Little print is the key I think for nobody seeing the real numbers.
chevman
Chevman....yup and has many legal positions to back the OEMs up
Newbies out of college to my design teams always had to have their eyes
opened on this aspect
Even down to the packaging imprinted stuff, labels stuck onto those
boxes...then the biggies: documentation inside
Both the paper manual, 'read me first' sheets, stickers, etc, etc
Legally, there is nothing an OEM can do, other than to do that. They
CAN NOT make the new owners/users read the warnings and conditions
The courts acknowledge and limit liability when those warning labels/etc
were there on/in the box(s)
Like the 1, 2, 3 or more first pages of most manuals today warning
to NOT use it near/in water, do not pull the cord but use the plug,
and a BIG ETC
I do read them, because used to be in the business. My tech writers
became experts after a few cycles with the lawyers. Even standardized
the various paragraphs to 'cut n paste' into new manuals
Some times those warnings are very stupid...like why would anyone
do that...well...because it is in there...betcha someone did and sued
that OEM for NOT warning them... :S
Bottom line: until all of the OEMs in this market sector are forced
to comply to a standardized set of rules...they will all have to do
this gamesmanship...as the one who does this will reap the market
share from the others...again..it is 'us' who force them into doing
these things...NC Hauler wrote:
larry barnhart wrote:
If anybody is happy with their truck why do all of the stories above matter.
I call it whining. Have a good Labor day everybody. Have fun and don't think about trucks.
chevman
Agree with you 100% Larry, if one is happy with their truck, all the negatives one may read about them, all the "dig's" and "slam's" that are posted about ALL of the Big Three's trucks doesn't mean squat. It's your truck, if it's a good truck and does all you need or want it to do with little to no trouble.....doesn't matter what anyone writes or say's about it....sure isn't going to make any difference in what I'm going to buy, I'll go by my own experiences thus far.
oh,I too Hope all of you have a Great Labor Day weekend:) I'll be thinking about what football games to watch, when best time to go swimming and what lures to use while fishing:)
Jim
I don't think this is the point people are making. I think the point is that you have to really inspect the exact truck you are purchasing and cannot rely on mfg. ratings due to tactics like this. How many times do we see posts on this forum about a person who thinks they can tow/haul X and it turns out to be X-Y because of the lack of truth in advertising?
I know its a little off topic, but I'd love to see two tow/payload ratings applied to trucks; one with just a driver and one with all seats filled with a 150lb occupant While we all don't travel all seats full, most who buy crew cabs do so with the intent of hauling passengers and it would give a true representation to the un-learned consumer.- On the Ram site you can plug in the VIN of any new truck and it will pull up payload and tow ratings. I've been using it to check out the various trucks I've been looking at. I think by using the VIN you are getting the payload for that specific vehicle with the actual options it has. I don't know if Ford or GM have a similar tool (or if they do, whether they delete unusual vehicle features like bumpers or center consoles).
- So you guys would be ok with your truck makers saying your truck makes 350hp when it actually only makes 325hp because you can check it yourself on a dyno, and oh well - they lied...it is buyer beware. ???? I wouldn't. I expect some integrity from a company I give my hard $50k earned money to.
