Have to wonder how this will effect the EV aficionados

The world should punish China, economically for what they have done by covering up COVID-19. Trump was dead on about China’s cover up and the WHO’s complicity. North America would be better off if we just minded our own business and worked with our immediate neighbors and let Europe and Asia deal with their own regional issues.

GDS-3950BH wrote:
Sure....solar and wind and hydro oh my. Those silly Chinese. They had nothing to do with Covid 19 by the way, it was released in a fart by a Belgian Unicorn.

:B :B :B

pianotuna wrote:

QCMan wrote:
Think about how much better the world will be without oil. No tires, no plastics, no paints, no solvents, no lubricants or any other of thousands of products made from it. Life will be wonderful!

We seemed to manage before 1800 without plastics and with few fossil fuels.

Hemp can replace many of the items on your list. In fact, it can even be made into batteries.

What happens to us when oil becomes "unobtainium"?

Maybe we could cut down all the trees like we did in the good ole days?

Cheap fuel

https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/a-century-ago-pennsylvania-stood-almost-entirely-stripped-of-trees/Content?oid=1848219

I will be up to start plugging as soon as I am covid cleared. 1/3 of the money up front deposited to my Swiss account. Seriously the 91,000 are inactive and belong to a company. Have your government make them a deal, plug 2 drill 1. No one should care what it costs them to plug each well, that is their problem.

The article mixes the private and public costs together. Only worry about the orphans, about 3,000. A shame the article does not give the current cost for plugging those. In Pennsylvania they were paying only about 8k to plug an old shallow cable tool drilled holes from 1870 up through 1920. Some were only a couple of hundred feet deep. Except, for one where the farmer had built his house over an old well. It was real convenient to hook it up to the furnace that way. Believe me, you cannot make that kind of stuff up. It was expensive I hear!!! I saw pictures.

thomas201 wrote:
Having approved the plugging of several hundred wells, you are getting hosed at 1 million each, even accounting for the exchange rates. Someone is not being honest, or misunderstood. Even a horizontal should run less than 50k. Canada doesn't make the companies post a bond? In the US the state (Feds, state, local in that order) come right behind court costs when you go bankrupt. Sell the good wells, sell the pipe and facilities, equipment and so on. That should pay for the plugging. Even secured creditors are behind the government. Maybe the great white north has different laws? Can't believe the companies don't post bonds.

Here is an article about it. The numbers are staggering to me. It appears 58 billion / 91000 = 2.8 million per site.

https://theconversation.com/the-growing-cost-to-clean-up-abandoned-and-orphaned-wells-143673

Yes too bad the fuel tax is all earmarked for roads. Need some for remediation and cleanup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_oil_spill

As of 2018, it was estimated that 300 to 700 barrels of oil per day are being spilled, making it one of the worst modern oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico by volume. The reserves are likely sufficient for the spill to continue for up to 100 years if it is not contained.

Having approved the plugging of several hundred wells, you are getting hosed at 1 million each, even accounting for the exchange rates. Someone is not being honest, or misunderstood. Even a horizontal should run less than 50k. Canada doesn't make the companies post a bond? In the US the state (Feds, state, local in that order) come right behind court costs when you go bankrupt. Sell the good wells, sell the pipe and facilities, equipment and so on. That should pay for the plugging. Even secured creditors are behind the government. Maybe the great white north has different laws? Can't believe the companies don't post bonds.

thomas201 wrote:
I am amazed that Canada has no plan to clean up the tailings.

Worse than that. There are a LOT of oil and gas wells that have had no site clean up. Currently in BC, one company (bankrupt, of course) has abandoned 401 well sites. Remediation is a cool 1 million per site. The tax payer is left holding the bag.

We do need to curb our population--but even China was unable to do so. There is plenty for me...and perhaps for my daughter--but I'm glad she chose to not have children (she also, at age 16, refused driver's ed training (1996) because she believed cars were bad for the environment).

routeforty wrote:
If you go back and read my post more carefully you will see that my beef is this-My Camry hybrid(NOT EV) gets the same mileage as my friends Camry(NON HYBRID) yet I pay $100 more for my registration than they do. We had a Prius for a while(until a deer totaled the car), with the great mileage that we got I had no problem with the extra fee. If I owned an EV I would have no problem with the fee as I would be using no gasoline, therefore no fuel tax-for road maintenance. I know it's only a hundred bucks, which is nothing to me, it's the principle of it.

I agree that if you cannot plug in and use low cost and un-roadtaxed electricity to go at least a few miles on electric only... the fee is a poor judgement by your local government.

Some are already feeling the revenue pinch with the general increase in efficiency for gasoline/diesel vehicles so it could become more common and eventually be added to all vehicles.

While the road tax on fuel seems like a good fit I believe everyone uses the roads and the money should to some extent come from progressive income tax. Possible the registration fee should be based on weight.

rhagfo wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

routeforty wrote:
Ohio has already started on extra charges. $100 extra for license plates for hybrid cars and $200 for electric vehicles. The plates for my Camry hybrid cost more than my dually, class c and other car-combined. :M :M

I'm confused. Why are you angry at being asked to provide a small percentage of your share to keep the roads up?

I think the issue you are seeing is how do states tax road usage of EV equably to fossil fueled vehicles.
Until they can devise a way to track mileage driven then higher registration fees are one method.
It would be nice to have a method to track mileage without invading privacy.

Is Mo the only state that requires a safety inspection every couple of years? And part of that report of total mileage on the vehicle? And the mileage on the vehicle every time it is bought/sold?
Why not ask owners how many miles expect to drive each year, and pay the fuel tax that a average ICE would pay? And if there is a big underestimate the fine would be so large, say 10X what tax would of been? Sure, some of each driver might put miles in another state, but others will drive in his home state so probably a wash