CWilson wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
My Momentum has optional 8K axles and disc brakes, 17.5 LRH tires, a 12" tall frame, and is the first RV I have owned where the tanks actually hold what they are spec'ed at. This is my 4th RV over 30 years, and the best one yet.
Thats great, but I am not sure what the height of the frame has to do with quality. One would expect the frame rails to be larger on a bigger rig. A 12" high frame can be fabricated just as shoddy as a 6" high frame and when it comes to LCI that speaks for itself. I've yet to see a quality weld on an LCI frame and its a known fact they use cheap surplus steel whenever they can and the smallest/lightest they can get away with. You paid for the optional axles and disc brakes, what would you have gotten from Grand Design as "stock"? Are you saying that the stock axles and brakes are low quality? I looked at a 2021 Grand Design TT and it had OEM installed Lionshead Castlerock China Bombs.
I am "not" defending poor craftsmanship. I detest the lack of good quality welds and the lack of pride in a trade that has been mastered long ago. There is more to what Huntingdog was talking about past the craftsmanship issues.
I can speak to the 12" frame comment, and that size does have to do with quality. I have seen the recent years' downsizing of the main frame rails across many brands. I'm not sure what his camper is rated at, but a triple axle camper can now be on a 10" frame. Does it work? Yes, will it last? Maybe not, pending the use of the camper.
As a point of reference, I can speak to the 10,000# GVWR-rated campers, which used to have 10" main frame rails, but now they are nearly non-existent and have been replaced with 8" frame rails other than a few select brands. I will never buy a new camper in the 10,000# GVWR range on 8" frame rails. I have seen what can happen over time with them if you plan to keep and use the camper for a good long time. I dealt with the 10" rails bending behind the rear hangers from a mega pothole-laced highway. And this was on HSLC 55ksi yield steel frame rails. HSLC = High Strength Low Carbon steel has a higher yield and tensile strength and is a way to gain strength without adding weight. The standard 36 ksi steel is the same shape, just not as strong. And downsizing to 8" from 10" is the wrong direction in my view for a camper to last a long time, even if it is on HSLC steel.
These I shape thin main frame rails came out of the manufactured homes industry. They are called MH beams in the industry. The MH beams are unlike a standard true I beam used in buildings and bridges. The MH industry uses them to transport the home to the job site, and that is about it. The RV industry was looking for a lightweight beam that, on paper, would work; they found the MH beams and have been dealing with frame cracks and how to try and stop them ever since. Hanger area web cracks, rear overhang past the rear hanger on longer campers, A-frame failures, and the list goes on. There are ways how to make that shape work, but it costs more $$ in materials and more time to reinforce the frame. Why not add it to all campers using that I shape frame?
Further downsizing on 10,000# campers, axle ratings, and springs is now well established. A 10,000# camper used to come with qty, 2, 5,200# axles and springs on 12" brakes. Many brands have adopted these new 4,400# axles, springs, and 10" brakes. Why?
Thin metal roof rafters and thin composite glued-together floors, in my view, are not of lasting quality either. The list just keeps going...
Quality, even if the craftsmen ship is done right, is also with what components are selected. An RV buyer dealing with past issues is more educated on what "not" to buy. Some of us want to keep our campers for a long time, I being one of that group. In order for long life and leak-free to happen, you have to start with something built better than most and then constantly be on top of the maintenance. My only suggestion is to educate yourself on what fails on certain brands and what to look out for.
There is always more to the story.
John
