How are the new Ford diesel engines?

45Ricochet wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I remember back when Ford fans were anxiously awaiting the debut of the 6.0. The Dmax had been stealing all their thunder and pride...
The 6.0 was to have cast iron heads AND more power than the Dmax....
Nirvana was close at hand...

Well that fizzeled. The replacement 6.4 wasn't much better, as it appeared that Ford gave up on it as soon as it was introduced.
With it's previously stellar reputation in tatters, I really thought that Ford would at the very least stand behind this latest diesel that they themselves designed and produced... Unlike the previous motors, they would have nobody to blame if it flopped.

So I find it really curious that they have taken this anti consumer warranty stance, especially when the competition is taking care of their customers.
The NHSTA numbers show that GM has a higher failure rate than Ford.
But these numbers are skewed some, as Ford doesn't count the ones that they denied warranty on. I suspect that the total failure rate is very close to the same.

I am pretty sure of what GMs motivation is to just handle it in the customers favor. The Dmax has a pretty good reputation over the last 13 years.. Not by any means trouble free, but it has outlasted the Ford offerings. And with being a spectator to Fords missteps, I am sure that they don't want to follow them. And finally there is a certain amount of stigma attached to them because of the govt. bailout.
This failure still seems to be rare. But it is ridiculously expensive if it happens to you.

LOL
I've also read the Ford 6.7 has a higher insurance premiums. Seems the Comp coverage is much higher than GM's. LINK Now granted these charts don't show exactly why the comp is higher, but clearly 4 SD's have poor comp ratings. Some reason the Mega cabs also got poor ratings.
Maybe that goes to show just which owners are making claims and which ones don't need to :B

On the insurance premium front, Geico offers Mechanical Breakdown insurance coverage. I believe the "dog" has it. IIRC, the last I heard, premiums for covering the Ford 6.7 diesel with this insurance were 400% more than the DuraMax...The Gecco gets it:B:B:B...

Regards

Huntindog wrote:
I remember back when Ford fans were anxiously awaiting the debut of the 6.0. The Dmax had been stealing all their thunder and pride...
The 6.0 was to have cast iron heads AND more power than the Dmax....
Nirvana was close at hand...

Well that fizzeled. The replacement 6.4 wasn't much better, as it appeared that Ford gave up on it as soon as it was introduced.
With it's previously stellar reputation in tatters, I really thought that Ford would at the very least stand behind this latest diesel that they themselves designed and produced... Unlike the previous motors, they would have nobody to blame if it flopped.

So I find it really curious that they have taken this anti consumer warranty stance, especially when the competition is taking care of their customers.
The NHSTA numbers show that GM has a higher failure rate than Ford.
But these numbers are skewed some, as Ford doesn't count the ones that they denied warranty on. I suspect that the total failure rate is very close to the same.

I am pretty sure of what GMs motivation is to just handle it in the customers favor. The Dmax has a pretty good reputation over the last 13 years.. Not by any means trouble free, but it has outlasted the Ford offerings. And with being a spectator to Fords missteps, I am sure that they don't want to follow them. And finally there is a certain amount of stigma attached to them because of the govt. bailout.
This failure still seems to be rare. But it is ridiculously expensive if it happens to you.

LOL
I've also read the Ford 6.7 has a higher insurance premiums. Seems the Comp coverage is much higher than GM's. LINK Now granted these charts don't show exactly why the comp is higher, but clearly 4 SD's have poor comp ratings. Some reason the Mega cabs also got poor ratings.
Maybe that goes to show just which owners are making claims and which ones don't need to :B

Gdetrailer wrote:

State Fan wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies. I traded my Ram 2500 in on a Chevy 1/2 ton last year and I haven't been keeping up with diesel engines on the forums. The 1/2 ton doesn't meet my needs and I need to go back to a 3/4 ton. It sounds like most on here would recommend that I go back with a Ram or Chevy. Is that true? Would either be a good choice?

One should be careful about basing your decision solely based on HEARSAY on these forums.

For every single complaint listed on a given brand and model you will have TENS OF THOUSANDS WITH NO COMPLAINTS.

Forums are rather finicky this way, people tend to get extremely vocal when there is problems. When there is NO problems people DON'T post.

The key here is BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, not what OTHERS want you to buy.

ALL manufacturers turn out lemons, don't let anyone tell you otherwise...

We are not talking about lemons or hearsay, we are talking about manufacture defects and facts.

Case in point is the CP4.x pump. It is used on both the Ford and the GM twins. This was a bad pump design from Bosch and both failed at around the same rate if you look at the facts. The problem was Ford did not warrantee most of their failed pumps and GM did. This is a 10 to 15K fix.

Another case in point is the turbo on the 6.7. They failed at an alarming rate on this engine. Now Ford did warrantee this part but that did not help the person that owned a small business and had to suffer the down-time.

Another case in point is the valve issue this engine is having. Is this TSB from Ford hearsay? What makes this TSB so serious is the fact that it covers 2011-2013 engines. That means this issue was not fixed for 3 years. Nice to know that at any given time the valve heads can pop off of the stems and take the engine out. :E That would give me a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside.

And now we have this problem. Not an expensive or hard problem to fix but it still shuts your engine down and leaves you stranded on the road.

Like I said above. I don't give a rats behind what anybody buys. But it's just incorrect to say these engines don't have some very serious problems. If you know about the problems and decide to buy it anyway, so be it.

Fordlover wrote:


If enough insurance companies pick up the 10K tab for the Powerstroke pump failure, I predict rates will skyrocket to cover these beasts.

Thank you, that was going to be my next point!

This really all goes back to Bosch not wanting to pay to use patent rights on technology to stop the piston from turning in the injection pump bore!

Chris

Me Again wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I really thought that Ford would at the very least stand behind this latest diesel that they themselves designed and produced... Unlike the previous motors, they would have nobody to blame if it flopped.

My point 100%! Why is Ford giving us this platform to discuss this issue. If they were doing what GM is doing, then these treads would not exist and damage their sales!

Hard to figure out what they are thinking!! Or is it they are failing to think? A few hundred repairs that they eat at maybe 5K their cost would not have created this issue.

Chris

I don't disagree with you. Ford should be standing behind the product like GM is doing(at least for now).

My guess is that Ford has a sour taste in it's mouth from the 6.0 years, and enacted a strict warranty policy with regard to diesels. GM hasn't footed the bill for very many repairs yet. If the cost gets high enough, it will eventually be noticed by the bean counters.

If enough insurance companies pick up the 10K tab for the Powerstroke pump failure, I predict rates will skyrocket to cover these beasts.

rhagfo wrote:

Me Again wrote:

Fordlover wrote:



And remember that Ford sells about 3 Powerstrokes for every 1 Duramax that GM moves. Even a basic understanding of math explains why you'll see more people complaing about their powerstroke vs. their Duramax. There's a bunch more powerstroke owners out there, which equals more problems.

Great! And that justifies Ford to deny warranty on CP4.2 pump failures??? Guess I miss the logic in that!

Don't forget to add Chevy and GMC numbers together.
Year to date:
Ford 559506
GM 496440



Chris

Well Ford Lover (Blind Love at that).

Looks like your math is way off. Comparing HD trucks (the only ones with diesel currently).

Your math isn't close.
The only thing keeping the F series lead currently is the F150. Ford is loosing sales percentage in the HD line.

link here.

"Interestingly, the overall take rates for their respective big-diesel engine choice (when calculating both three-quarter-ton and one-ton pickups together) is more than 85 percent for Ram HDs, about 68 percent for Ford Super Dutys, 55 percent for GMC and 45 percent for Chevy. As you may have surmised, the 2500 HD (both the Sierra HD at 50 percent and Silverado HD at 35 percent) trucks still sell a lot of gasoline 6.0-liter V-8s in the segment."

Yep, that's right, less than half of Chevy HD's sold have the duramax. GMC's 55% rate would be more impressive if they sold more trucks....only 19,600 Duramax GMC's sold in 2012. Think they'll qualify for collector car status at those low production numbers?

Does it surprise anyone that MOST chevy HD's on the road are the 6.0 Gas engine based on 2012's sales data?

Here's 2010's sales data.
link

Huntindog wrote:
I really thought that Ford would at the very least stand behind this latest diesel that they themselves designed and produced... Unlike the previous motors, they would have nobody to blame if it flopped.

My point 100%! Why is Ford giving us this platform to discuss this issue. If they were doing what GM is doing, then these treads would not exist and damage their sales!

Hard to figure out what they are thinking!! Or is it they are failing to think? A few hundred repairs that they eat at maybe 5K their cost would not have created this issue.

Chris

PA12DRVR wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

State Fan wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies. I traded my Ram 2500 in on a Chevy 1/2 ton last year and I haven't been keeping up with diesel engines on the forums. The 1/2 ton doesn't meet my needs and I need to go back to a 3/4 ton. It sounds like most on here would recommend that I go back with a Ram or Chevy. Is that true? Would either be a good choice?

One should be careful about basing your decision solely based on HEARSAY on these forums.

For every single complaint listed on a given brand and model you will have TENS OF THOUSANDS WITH NO COMPLAINTS.

Forums are rather finicky this way, people tend to get extremely vocal when there is problems. When there is NO problems people DON'T post.

The key here is BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, not what OTHERS want you to buy.

ALL manufacturers turn out lemons, don't let anyone tell you otherwise...

Yep...what he said. 3 Ford Diesels, 1 GM, and 2 Dodge in my history. All had good and bad points.

The point is not the truck, it is Ford failure to honor their warranty on a very expensive repair. How many people have 10-11K laying around to pay for this repair.

Ford should have taken the high road on this issue like GM is doing! If one feels compelled to by a CP4.2 equiped truck, as least by one(GM) that the manufacturer will warranty. Or by a CP3 equipped truck(RAM)!

Chris

Gdetrailer wrote:

State Fan wrote:
Thanks for all of the replies. I traded my Ram 2500 in on a Chevy 1/2 ton last year and I haven't been keeping up with diesel engines on the forums. The 1/2 ton doesn't meet my needs and I need to go back to a 3/4 ton. It sounds like most on here would recommend that I go back with a Ram or Chevy. Is that true? Would either be a good choice?

One should be careful about basing your decision solely based on HEARSAY on these forums.

For every single complaint listed on a given brand and model you will have TENS OF THOUSANDS WITH NO COMPLAINTS.

Forums are rather finicky this way, people tend to get extremely vocal when there is problems. When there is NO problems people DON'T post.

The key here is BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, not what OTHERS want you to buy.

ALL manufacturers turn out lemons, don't let anyone tell you otherwise...

Yep...what he said. 3 Ford Diesels, 1 GM, and 2 Dodge in my history. All had good and bad points.