How rigid is payload number

rbpru wrote:
The article focused on proper hitch and towing capacity. It did not say much about max cargo.

Don't you think it's covered by these statements.....?
"“Any person who tows a trailer would be responsible to know that the towing vehicle has certain limitations which should not be exceeded."
and
"When it comes to negligence, or the failure of the driver’s “duty to tow only that which the vehicle is designed to tow,” Holleman and other attorneys agree if there’s an accident and the towing vehicle isn’t properly set up, the injured person would probably win any ensuing lawsuit."

The article focused on proper hitch and towing capacity. It did not say much about max cargo.

Since the OP is committed to the trailer, hitch up and drive to the scales would be a good idea. That way you are sure how close you are to the limit.

the article in the clickie is just another example of tons of blogs/advertisements/lawyer advertisements/etc we see posted on the net.

This article was written by ;
Quote; "Bruce W. Smith is a full-time national automotive/boating writer, book author, and national talk show radio host who specializes in boats and tow vehicles."

He may specialize in boats and tow vehicles but he was wise enough to skirt legal issues which like the most folks know little about actual trucking regulations regarding size and weights (GVWR/payloads/GAWRs/tire capacities/GCWR/etc).

The article is certainly no smoking gun regarding this threads topic but more of a small pop from someone pushing a new book.

Back on topic specific to the OPs question: I think being 300 lbs overweight is wishful thinking. If the dry weight of the trailer is 7180, figure you will add at least 1000 lbs of stuff in that size rig, so the loaded weight is likely around 8200 lbs.

Figure 15% tongue weight, that's 1230 lbs on the hitch. Add in 100 lbs for the hitch itself, plus 800 lbs for passengers, and your truck is at 2130 against a rating of 1266 making you 864 lbs over weight.

Since you already pulled the trigger on the new trailer (congrats by the way) all you can do is wait till it gets here and see how it tows. I would suggest that after you take delivery, pack it up like you're going camping and take a trip over to the scales. All we know right now is that you will be somewheres between 300-900 lbs overweight, so best to get it weighed and see where it comes in.

After you weigh it and drive it, then you can make the determination about whether you are happy with the set up or whether you need another truck.

Ron Gratz wrote:


IMO, anyone who questions the importance of GVWR (or any other rating) should read Trailer Towing Illegally.


Ron

Ron,

Excellent article and confirms the salient points I keep trying to make in these discussions by ACTUAL ATTORNEYS. Folk keep trying to refer to "internet lawyers" and want reference to cases listed on the internet, but the fact remains that ignoring such things as GVWR and hitch/safety related requirements for trailer towing exposes one to POTENTIAL LIFE CHANGING risks. I wonder if these doubters take the same risks by not carrying fire or theft insurance on their homes or even comprehensive auto insurance or say collision and liability in excess of the min required in their states. IMO it boils down to risk exposure and how much you are will to accept and for me it is just too simple to remove that with the proper choice in either a TV or a TT.

Larry

spoon wrote:
Larry, I think you are right and I misspoke. FMVSS standards (I googled them) are for crash safety and crash avoidance. It has NOTHING to do with GVWR or axle ratings.

I forget what standard applies to vehicles to determine ratings. For some reason I thought FMVSS determined that.

Lots of opinions what the FMVSS says but this is a paste and copy from;
49 CFR
571.105 Standard No. 105; Hydraulic and electric brake systems.

S6.1 Vehicle weight.

S6.1.1 Other than tests specified at lightly loaded vehicle weight in S7.5(a), S7.7, S7.8, and S7.9, the vehicle is loaded to its GVWR such that the weight on each axle as measured at the tire-ground interface is in proportion to its GAWR, except that each fuel tank is filled to any level from 100 percent of capacity (corresponding to full GVWR) to 75 percent. However, if the weight on any axle of a vehicle at lightly loaded vehicle weight exceeds the axle's proportional share of the gross vehicle weight rating, the load required to reach GVWR is placed so that the weight on that axle remains the same as a lightly loaded vehicle weight."

GVWR and the GAWRs are mentioned in this brake test.
.......................................................

Also the truck GVWR and FAWR/RAWR are required for the truck makers to affix with a certification placard on the door post per;

49 cfr 567.4 Requirements for manufacturers of motor vehicles.

(a) Each manufacturer of motor vehicles (except vehicles manufactured in two or more stages) shall affix to each vehicle a label, of the type and in the manner described below, containing the statements specified in paragraph (g) of this section.

(b) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.

(snipped for length)

(3) “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions.

(snipped)

(4) “Gross Axle Weight Rating” or “GAWR,” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, for each axle, identified in order from front to rear (e.g., front, first intermediate, second intermediate, rear).
..............................................

Keep in mind the truck maker may choose the trucks GVWR up to the sum of the certified GAWRs.
And brakes are a function of the trucks FAWR and RAWR but have to pass the minimum test at the trucks GVWR in proportion to its GAWRs.
Add your trucks fawr and rawr will be the brakes total lbs of brake performance.

Thats one reason some weight regulations may read like this one. I'm posting this as a reference to the vehicles brakes = the GAWRs and not to start a weights argument;

(snipped for length)
1. A person must not, without an overload permit, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle loaded or configured so that

(a) the gross weight on an axle exceeds the manufacturer's rated capacity for that axle or for the brake or suspension system with which the axle is equipped, ...........

Ron,

Civil liability can hit you under the manufacture ratings also.

Some states like where I live, do not recognize the manufacture ratings when it comes to what an officer will do in an accident or equal pull over.

As I also stated for the OP, In there case. I would not pull said trailer with that truck.

Where one wishes to go with the civil part, is up to them. Civil has a lot of gray in the how one will be found to be guilty. Look at the OJ case, guilty in civil, not guilty in the legal. The guilty standard is way lower in a civil case than legal case too.

I know all about the civil types too. In some cases like my wife a few years back. She was sued. Insurance knew she was not guilty, but still settled for .5mil to the accuser. Accuser on the other hand, was later found VERY guilty of some IRS issues that pretty much took what she got from spouses insurance, and a quite a bit more! BenK can also tell us what happens in civil cases too, even when not guilty!

Marty

blt2ski wrote:
I drive over the gvwr without issues, ---

Marty, just because you drive over the gvwr without issues, doesn't mean that everyone can do the same.

IMO, there's more to consider than just whether an officer might give you an overweight ticket.
There's also civil liability considerations.

IMO, anyone who questions the importance of GVWR (or any other rating) should read Trailer Towing Illegally.

Although being above GVWR might not be above "legal capacity" --
it might be construed as the vehicle "being used to tow something it was not designed to tow".

I would not want to find myself being the defendant in an accident lawsuit where my vehicle was being used to carry load in excess of the manufacturer's specifications.
And, I wouldn't want my attorney to be in the position of having to convince a civil jury that it was okay to exceed the GVWR as long as I didn't exceed the rear GAWR.

Others might be willing to accept more risk than I am.

Ron

spoon059 wrote:
Larry, I think you are right and I misspoke. FMVSS standards (I googled them) are for crash safety and crash avoidance. It has NOTHING to do with GVWR or axle ratings.

There are over 200 FMVSS regulations. They cover everything from lighting, to crashworthiness, to braking.
Brake and crash tests are conducted at GVWR, which is why the label on your door says "This vehicle complies with all Emission and safety standards on the date of manufacture". That same label contains the GVWR and axle ratings.
The Manufacturer has certified that the vehicle meets the standards AT GVWR. The performance of safety systems above GVWR are a no-mans land and no Manufacturer will attest that it is OK to exceed the GVWR at any time.

You could save yourself another 150 lbs or so by getting a divorce. On second thought, it would probably be cheaper to just upgrade the truck!