Is It Worth It?

We are half towing and half not towing and pull a 14.6K fifth wheel. We went with gas (7.3L and 4.30 axle, 26K GCWR) and it works fine for us. I agree that a larger RV should be pulled by a diesel. With the 10 speed, we downshift a lot, but it pulls fine up the hills. We are 22.6K combined, with about 15% reserve margin. A diesel would have a much larger reserve. I am comfortable with 15%, but understand many who would prefer 40% reserve margin.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Diesel will net you 25 to 30% better mileage. Just do the math in your area and find out if diesel wins out in the cost contest or not.

I agree with this.

Despite higher price at the pump you are still better off because your MPG is better in a diesel than gas. With a gas truck you will buy more fuel than you will with a diesel, enough to make it cost more in the long run.

but, the cost of a diesel truck is considerably more. How long the difference in price tag to the net in overall fuel costs would probably be long enough that it doesn't matter.

Then you have value. Diesel trucks - despite fuel costs - retain higher value than the equivalent gas trucks. So you pay more up front but it's worth more on the back end.

Finally, I think you said it yourself, that a diesel truck simply does the job better. The new gas trucks are phenomenal and likely better than a diesel truck a few years ago, but apples to apples, the diesel just does the job easier. No offense to gas truck owners. Either will do the job adequately.

Personally, I don't really care for my new truck to just drive around. It's big, torquey, bouncy and rough riding. Once you hook up the FW though it's like a Cadillac. It's made to haul a big load, not really made as a grocery getter. I do find that I like it on long trips even without the RV but otherwise it's not a lot of fun to run to the store.

IMHO, diesel does NOT make sense unless you

• Have a load that can't possibly be towed by a gasser
• Drive 50,000+ per year

Preferably, both !

wanderingaimlessly wrote:
GM's 6.6 with a 10 speed they all are more capable than the gassers of 2017.

IF only GM was smart enough to do that...instead, they get the old 6 speed and only 3.73's just to make sure they're firmly still in 3rd place in the HD gasser power category....

I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.

theoldwizard1 wrote:
IMHO, diesel does NOT make sense unless you

• Have a load that can't possibly be towed by a gasser
• Drive 50,000+ per year

Preferably, both !

Or don't wanna spend every pull slummin' it at 35mph in the right lane with your 4 ways on with all the OTR Fed Ex trucks and heavy haulers.

Or if you don't have the extra cash to spring for a diesel (that you'll get back later anyway.)

Or if you can't handle an oily pump nozzle.

Or if you think 400hp is alot but don't understand torque.

Or if you like the smell of brake pads in the morning comin' down the mountain after slummin it all the way up.

Or if enough power to do a smoky burnout with a 1500lb tongue weight trailer on dry pavement scares you.

Or....

thomas201 wrote:
I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.

And while that is a good point and virtually every large corporate fleet of pickups is gassers (unless like you said, diesel power being absolutely necessary), there are probably a dozen significant differences between "fleet" considerations and "personal" considerations.

It'll make my fingers hurt, but here's a few.

1. Fleet vehicles generally = multiple or maybe hundreds of different drivers over the course of a vehicles' lifespan. Not conducive to the bit of extra consideration diesels need.
2. Same as above, but far more valuation is lost due to damage on fleet vehicle than an average personal vehicle. IE, a person may have a dump run truck or wood truck for beatin on. Alot of fleet vehicles, they are ALL proverbial wood run trucks...
3. Resale on fleet vehicles is a lower % of initial cost than comparable (cared for) personal vehicles pretty much across the board.
Would you intentionally spend more knowing you're getting a lower ROI, up front?
4. Reliability. Absolutely a factor. And no one would argue that the avg diesel needs a little more care and can have different more expensive problems than an average gasser. For a fleet manager/owner, this combined with higher initial expense, and the factors listed above, tip the scales the other direction.

5. Initial expense is lower with gassers, yet the "fleet" has a diesel somewhere if it's needed. Avg private owner has 1 truck for everything, therefore can't get out of the gasser for week when it's time to tow the 5ver. And $10k/truck over 100 trucks a year is...alot of money saved on the bottom line, for something that will be subject to #1-3 above.

I could keep going, but point is , fleet considerations aren't necessarily synonymous with personal vehicle considerations.
From a personal standpoint, I get a greater ROI out of most vehicles compared to many other people. And a diesel will cost you more if you view it as a throw away Solo cup and not a piece of fine china (true for all vehicles).
I can confidently say that EVERY diesel I've had has returned a greater ROI, all in, than most gassers. And a few gassers have taken a hit that I would not have expected.

For me, although I no longer tow an RV (it was a 39' FW when I last RV'd), I have 2 diesel vehicles and 1 gasser that are used for towing. For most of the towing, I use the F250 so that there is no problem when I'm pulling the boat or the sno go trailer and push down on the pedal, something happens other than a gas engine wrapping up to 5k+rpms. I know it's more semantics than physics, but I'm just more comfortable towing loads that get up into the capacity of the TV if it's diesel. Some concept on the "big" truck: when the equipment trailer needs to be moved, and I hook up to the F550, I know I won't set any speed or mileage records, but it will go.

The Sequoia hauls the jet ski, the kayaks, and the log splitter just fine.

...and as an added thought, it wasn't that long ago (although maybe 8 - 12 months) that diesel was priced lower than gas and fuel cost was cheaper in the F250 for a non-towing road trip than in the Sequoia.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.

To a certain extent, but where you will be towing is the most important. Mountain travel, the you need a diesel. Flat lands east of the big muddy, you can live with a gasser.
Of course you can drag your RV up those 7 or 8% grades, but the engine will be working very hard.