Is ram air suspension needed?

The highest rated Ram 3500 SRW's have a GVWR of 12,300 lbs. If you get a Cummins with the 68RFE in Tradesman trim and no other options, you can have a crew cab 4x4 long bed with a 4480 lb payload. If you choose the short bed, the GVWR drops to 11,700 lbs and payload is 4070 lbs. RAWR is 7000 lbs with most scaling out 3000 lbs on the rear axle, so actual pin weight will have to be less than stated payload.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/bbg/pdf/2016/docs/ram/rammlup3500.pdf

boshog wrote:


You can get a SRW RAM 3500, 4x4, CC 6'4" box with 4,500 pounds of payload, more than enough for a 3,000 pound pin weight. The OP clearly stated they want to avoid a dually, so did I, and I don't have any issues pulling my 41 foot Montana with my SRW 3500.

4,500 pounds of payload and being about to handle pin weight are two different things. Pin weight goes almost all of the rear axle. With a SB and the desire to have a manual slider ate 270 pounds of rear axle capacity. A couple bed boxes and some stuff eat a couple hundred pounds more.

I am speaking from real life experiences with a new 2015 3500 4x4 CC SB Aisin truck purchased in September 2015. I have weighed numerous times working towards the sell of the Cardinal and the Bighorn 3575el(39'3") we just purchase. It has a 16K GVWR and was listed by the manufacturer as having a 2435 dry pin weight. We figure if we do not load the heck out of it we will be at around 3200 pin weight and under the trucks 7K RGAWR by a small amount. I would note that a 2500 would be over it's 6500 RGAWR.

For the record our truck can be pushing 8750 ready to tow.

Different trailers have different pin weight ratios. Most Montanas and Cardinals are pin heavy.

Unless one is going to tow a fairly small 5th wheel and NEVER upgrade, then go ahead and get a 2500. For everyone else the starting point should be at least a 3500 SRW and know that you are still going to have watch your loading.

Or get a dually and don't worry until you purchase a monster like Cummins12V98 has.

Note to boshog! Could you please note which model truck with a diesel weighs 1,000 less than our RAM????

11700-4500=7200 pounds. I do not think RAM makes a Diesel 4x4 CC SB that light. Maybe a Hemi Tradesman 2x4?

Our truck weighs 8220 empty, no hitch with me behind the wheel and some empty plastic garbage cans in the bed.

Chris

mtofell1 wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:
Any good reason for not wanting a 3500? It would be a great change of plans but you have your reason for buying how you see fit of course. I also feel a 6 wheel truck would be safer for you.

chevman

And, for the OP, yes a 41' 5th wheel is waaaaaay to much for a 2500. It's only waaay too much for a SRW 3500 :) Really, you are in DRW territory with that 5th.

Bull! I don't know how some of you come to these false conclusions. Look at the RAM HD towing and payload specifications (downloadable from the RAM web site), 3,000 pound pin weight is in SRW territory albeit at the upper edge. Some of us just do not want a truck with those wide child-bearing-hips, just to darn hard to park, for example, in sight-seeing areas.

You can get a SRW RAM 3500, 4x4, CC 6'4" box with 4,500 pounds of payload, more than enough for a 3,000 pound pin weight. The OP clearly stated they want to avoid a dually, so did I, and I don't have any issues pulling my 41 foot Montana with my SRW 3500.

larry barnhart wrote:
Any good reason for not wanting a 3500? It would be a great change of plans but you have your reason for buying how you see fit of course. I also feel a 6 wheel truck would be safer for you.

chevman

I'm casually shopping and the coils in the 2500 sure seem to ride nicer than the leaf springs in the 3500. I can only comment on one side of the comparison as a current owner of a 2500 Ram gasser. The lightened payload of the 2500 diesel sure is a bummer. It seems you can't have the best of both worlds :)

And, for the OP, yes a 41' 5th wheel is waaaaaay to much for a 2500. It's only waaay too much for a SRW 3500 :) Really, you are in DRW territory with that 5th.

APT wrote:
For about 2k dry pin weight, you'll want a truck with at least 3500 pounds of payload. You'll add a 200 pound receiver, another couple hundred pounds of things stuffed around the hitch, people and stuff in the cab, and that dry pin weight will go up by 500 pounds when you stuff the basement.

3/4 Ram diesels have 1500-2500 pounds of payload - not enough. SRW 1-tons have 2500-3500 pounds - borderline. Dually has over 4000 pounds - winner!

I agree with jeep1 above. Besides the payload, I think you will be a lot more comfortable towing a 40' 5er with dual rear wheels. It adds a lot more stability.

Find a comparable bed/cab/drivetrain truck on the dealer lot and look at the tire and loading sticker for available payload.

My fairly loaded 3500 srw has 3700# payload. There are tradesmans with 4000#.

batavia02 wrote:
Hitch weight on coulmbus 385 bh is1,940. Gvwr 15940.prime time crusader 16,110 gvwr hitch weight 2110.what do you folks think?

Both of those will overload a 2500 when ready to camp. We just bought a 39'3" Bighorn with a 16k GVWR. Our 3500 SRW is going to handle it fine. Chris

IdaD wrote:
I'd think about a DRW or downsizing the trailer a bit if you really don't want to go with a DRW. That's a lot of trailer for a SRW.

I have to disagree, I pull a 41 foot Montana, 15K pounds, 3K pin weight with a 3500 SRW without issue. I just have to be aware that I have a lot of weight back there so I don't try and take sharp turns fast. I've been in strong cross-winds and the lateral push isn't any different than in a vehicle.

Would a dually have been nice, yes, but given the size of it and difficulties parking it in close sight-seeing areas, I opted not to go that route.

To the OP, there is a dealer over on the Cummins forum who says 2016 orders closed on the 17th. Here is the link.
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/2037274-air-suspension-restricted-ordering-3500s.html#post23554314

Golden_HVAC wrote:
I would not recommend the 2500 with any fifth wheel, except the very lightest ones. You would only have the cargo capacity for a travel trailer with a 2500 truck.

Get the 3500 truck, if you think the pin weight will be less than 2,600 pounds dry, or 3,200 ready to roll down the road. Yes the pin weight goes way up when you fill it with camping gear and 60 - 80 gallons of water.

If you want a really nice fifth wheel, such as Grand Teton, then a dually is almost a requirement, and sure makes it more stable.

Air ride makes it nice when not towing, to soften the suspension. With all that extra weight back there, traditional springs will soften out a bit while towing, but sightseeing without the trailer can be a bit rough, until you let out some air!

Have fun with the new truck!

Fred.

So can the 2500 carry/pull a 41' 5er, well depends a bit on the weight and the Pin, but if you are buying NEW, WHY???

To get a 3500 SRW, is about $1,000 more than a 2500, you will drop that much doctoring up a 2500 to make it tow maybe OK.

If I was thinking that big, I would be looking at a 3500 DRW, just for the added capacity.

I think those trailers put you in DRW territory. If you want a SRW truck I'd scale the trailer back a bit. As far as 2500 vs 3500, if you're going to be pulling a larger fifth wheel it would make sense to get the 3500, but in all reality the capability differences between the two is minor - you're only getting a 500 lb RAWR bump with the 3500. To me that's a six of one, half dozen of the other situation. But with the dually you get a sizable bump up in your RAWR and have the load spread over four tires versus two, and I think with a 16k lb trailer you'd want the extra capability.

For about 2k dry pin weight, you'll want a truck with at least 3500 pounds of payload. You'll add a 200 pound receiver, another couple hundred pounds of things stuffed around the hitch, people and stuff in the cab, and that dry pin weight will go up by 500 pounds when you stuff the basement.

3/4 Ram diesels have 1500-2500 pounds of payload - not enough. SRW 1-tons have 2500-3500 pounds - borderline. Dually has over 4000 pounds - winner!

I agree with jeep1 above. Besides the payload, I think you will be a lot more comfortable towing a 40' 5er with dual rear wheels. It adds a lot more stability.

Find a comparable bed/cab/drivetrain truck on the dealer lot and look at the tire and loading sticker for available payload.