It's past time

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
Have you ever read a history book? The last time there was a major war in Europe gas, and many other things where rationed.
Your Venezuelan baker boat don't compare. The price of bread limited at a price too low for profit. I want to hold profit at record high, until the end of war. If that breaks a oil company, they're dead now.
My limited info is imports from Russia amounts to less than 10% of supply. I have know doubt that those of us that just pull in fill up, witch about the total, could reduce our use by at least that much. That would reduce demand/price increase for the people that always just put enough in tank to get back and forth to work. But the last 2+ years have proven a large percentage of population will not change behavior to save others lives.

Yes, a bit of a history buff. As horrible as the current situation is, it's no where close to WWII. It may go there eventually but there is absolutely no comparison with the current situation. During WWII price was not a primary concern in regards to rationing and we are no where close to rationing being a reasonable solution.

I agree, we are not, or should not, be close to rationing. And I agree a limit on profits is generally not a good idea. But in the past laws have been passed, written for a set length of time. A short term, war time legislation could work.
As far as that goes, just a few months back, when pump prices where rising at the same time crude prices was falling, President suggested there might be a reason for investigation, (First president to speak of investigating oil co sense T Roosevelt) Next day, stations where lowering prices. Even just introducing bill in both chambers, starting the discussion would very likely slow, if not reverse the rise in prices. (I confess I would love to hear Mr Block Even Good Law convince us high gas price is a good thing)

The problem with the govt setting profits is who decides what is a reasonable profit (or even a generous profit whatever that is supposed to be)...just because you think it's record profits doesn't mean it really is when looking at the big picture (R&D, Exploration, Risk, etc...). I wouldn't trust the politicians to decide as they are likely to use it as a tool to buy votes rather than determine a reasonable price.

First, I'm not saying record profits. I'm quoting the oil companies reporting record profits. I'm sure R&D, exploration, risk etc. was already included.

If you don't like the Venezuelan comparison, it's similar to the politicians screaming about gouging after a hurricane.
- If the govt mandates prices stay constant, the first people to the store buy more water than they really need, leaving none for the rest. Since there isn't much profit, there's no incentive for companies to get more water into the area quickly.
- On the other hand, if private business is able to sell at say $20/case, people will limit purchases to what they really need, allowing others access to the current supply. Also, it may be extremely profitable for a grocery chain to load up trucks with bottled water and get it in as soon as the road is clear.

If the first person gets to the store, buys more than needs there is none left on the shelf this is bad. But if the first person gets to store, the shelf is full, but he does not have a spare 3 hour of pay for it, still not good. Of course, if after things get back to normal, consumers vote with their $, the store that had the water would not be able to pay their rent.

No point in trying to have a discussion when the other side is only interested in parroting “faux” talking points.

Perhaps columnist Rick Newman’s take on gas prices will be believable to you.

From the Newmaverse: Democrats, Republicans and gas prices

JRscooby wrote:
I'm I the only one to remember when the demand dropped so fast that a lot of speculators owned a bunch of oil, where paying others to take it because they did not want to store it in swimming pools? There was a time, likely too short to show up as a data point, where the price of crude dropped below $0.00

Must have been a fun day for some trading oil.

The price of the main U.S. oil benchmark fell more than $50 a barrel to end the day about $30 below zero, the first time oil prices have ever turned negative.

nickthehunter wrote:
Yup - got it, Brandon’s got nothing to do with the ever increasing cost of oil. Except that doesn’t square with his promises and his speeches even today.
We’ll see how well that “not my fault” song plays come November.

Can you say blood bath?

JRscooby wrote:
Have you ever read a history book? The last time there was a major war in Europe gas, and many other things where rationed.
Your Venezuelan baker boat don't compare. The price of bread limited at a price too low for profit. I want to hold profit at record high, until the end of war. If that breaks a oil company, they're dead now.
My limited info is imports from Russia amounts to less than 10% of supply. I have know doubt that those of us that just pull in fill up, witch about the total, could reduce our use by at least that much. That would reduce demand/price increase for the people that always just put enough in tank to get back and forth to work. But the last 2+ years have proven a large percentage of population will not change behavior to save others lives.

Yes, a bit of a history buff. As horrible as the current situation is, it's no where close to WWII. It may go there eventually but there is absolutely no comparison with the current situation. During WWII price was not a primary concern in regards to rationing and we are no where close to rationing being a reasonable solution.

The problem with the govt setting profits is who decides what is a reasonable profit (or even a generous profit whatever that is supposed to be)...just because you think it's record profits doesn't mean it really is when looking at the big picture (R&D, Exploration, Risk, etc...). I wouldn't trust the politicians to decide as they are likely to use it as a tool to buy votes rather than determine a reasonable price.

If you don't like the Venezuelan comparison, it's similar to the politicians screaming about gouging after a hurricane.
- If the govt mandates prices stay constant, the first people to the store buy more water than they really need, leaving none for the rest. Since there isn't much profit, there's no incentive for companies to get more water into the area quickly.
- On the other hand, if private business is able to sell at say $20/case, people will limit purchases to what they really need, allowing others access to the current supply. Also, it may be extremely profitable for a grocery chain to load up trucks with bottled water and get it in as soon as the road is clear.

Problem with your theory that Russia being only 10% is it's the last barrel sold that sets the price. Take 10% off the market can have an outsized impact on the price.

So no, govt price controls have never been a great solution.

Yup - got it, Brandon’s got nothing to do with the ever increasing cost of oil. Except that doesn’t square with his promises and his speeches even today.
We’ll see how well that “not my fault” song plays come November.

Yep, talk of cutting fossil fuel production (while actual production is increasing) is causing panic buying of fuel which is leading to price increases. Go check it out (from data sources not from a political talking head of either side, I suggest EIA), fuel prices were rising before this administration (because of increasing demand after the lock downs).

BCSnob wrote:
Perhaps supply was trying (but failing) to keep up with the dropping demand (hence the negative price of oil futures) and now the increasing demand is faster than the increasing supply which is why prices are high.

Economics 101

Perhaps - or perhaps it’s Brandon’s promises to eliminate fossil fuels.

Perhaps supply was trying (but failing) to keep up with the dropping demand (hence the negative price of oil futures) and now the increasing demand is faster than the increasing supply which is why prices are high.

Economics 101

nickthehunter wrote:

BCSnob wrote:
What decrease in US oil production since Jan 2021? All I find is a big decrease in production around Feb 2020.

US Crude Oil Production Apr 1983-Feb 2022

But why let the facts get in the way of a good story

Yup, looks like you’re correct, back to reading comprehension 101 for me!
As an added note, looks like the decline tracks with the onset of Covid, where I guess the demand probably would have also similarly declined.

I'm I the only one to remember when the demand dropped so fast that a lot of speculators owned a bunch of oil, where paying others to take it because they did not want to store it in swimming pools? There was a time, likely too short to show up as a data point, where the price of crude dropped below $0.00