J2807 SAE towing standards

spud1957 wrote:
Apparently when Ram upgrades their trucks and increase the payload/towing capacity, it's obvious why. When another manufacturer does it and uses the same test standards as Ram, it's fairy dust, and they make up their ratings.:S

No

Fairy Dust is a Ford thing.

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I was told at May Madness in 2012 by a high up Chrysler Rep that the late 11 and up RAM trucks already met the SAE standards. Not sure if the 10 and early 11's also complied.

In 2010, the same Ram 1500 crew cab 4x2 5.7L 3.92 with a 5 speed had the same 10,200 lbs tow ratings as the 2011 above.

In 2010, the same Ram 2500 crew cab 4x2 5.7L 4.10 with a 5-speed had an 11,100 lb tow rating which is 1,000 lbs less than the same 2011 that was exactly the same transmission and all.

I was told at May Madness in 2012 by a high up Chrysler Rep that the late 11 and up RAM trucks already met the SAE standards. Not sure if the 10 and early 11's also complied.

spud1957 wrote:
Interesting stuff Shiner. You obviously spent a shat load of time comparing tow ratings between years. Informative.

It doesn't take that much time when using the Ram Bodybuilder pdf. Just a few clicks and you can jump from year to year ratings.

Interesting stuff Shiner. You obviously spent a shat load of time comparing tow ratings between years. Informative.

I look at J2807 as I do with EPA ratings. If they are all using the same standards it allows you to do a fair comparison between different vehicles. Are they achievable? maybe.

spud1957 wrote:
Apparently when Ram upgrades their trucks and increase the payload/towing capacity, it's obvious why. When another manufacturer does it and uses the same test standards as Ram, it's fairy dust, and they make up their ratings.:S

Actually, for the 1500 it is more like Ram upgraded the truck to meet the tow ratings it had. For example, in 2011 a Ram 1500 crew cab 4x2 5.7L 3.92 with a 5-speed 545RFE was rated to tow 10,200 lbs. Then in 2012 they upgraded the transmission to a 6 speed, but the tow rating for the very same truck decreased to 10,150 lbs. Then in 2013 with the addition of a slightly more powerful Hemi 5.7L, stronger frame, and a new 8 speed transmission the rating increased to 10,300 lbs. The ratings stayed the same for 2014. Now, in 2015 with the J2807 standards the tow rating only increased 20 lbs to 10,320 lbs. So basically they upgraded the truck from a 5 speed to an 8 speed, gave it more power, and upgraded the frame in a span of 4 years just to get an increase of 120 lbs.

They just upgraded the truck to meet the tow ratings it had so it would not take a hit when they finally went to J2807.

It is a bit of a different story with the 2500 Crew Cab 5.7L with a 4.10 rear end. In 2011, it had a tow rating of 12,100 lbs. In 2012, they upgraded the transmission from a 5-speed to a 6-speed and the tow rating increased to 13,960 lbs. The same tow rating carried over in 2013. Then in 2014, (one year before they adopted the J2807) the tow rating decreased to 13,510 lbs. Then when they adopted the J2807 in 2015, they got to say that the tow rating didn't change from the 2014 non-J2807 tow rating to the 2015 J2807 tow rating of 13,510 lbs. From the way it looks they either made the tow rating changes before 2014 or upgraded the trucks to meet the J2807 tow ratings when they adopted it in 2015.

drittal wrote:
For one, 2011-2014 f150 ecoboost was a different truck than the 2015.

The very same 2011-2014 F150 with a 3.73 ratio is rated to tow 11,300 lbs using the same brakes, frame, and powertrain. This means if Ford was "fluffing" the numbers then they would have given the 3.55 an 11,300 lb tow rating instead of the 9,800 lb max tow rating that they gave it since the truck itself can clearly handle it.

The 2014 F150 has the same front 13.8"/rear 13.7" brakes, the same power rated 3.5L Ecoboost engines, the same 6R80 transmission, the same 8.80" or 9.75"(HD) rear axle, and the frame has the same 49,300 psi yield strength as the 2011-2014 model. The major difference between the two is the body design and and the weight savings.

Apparently when Ram upgrades their trucks and increase the payload/towing capacity, it's obvious why. When another manufacturer does it and uses the same test standards as Ram, it's fairy dust, and they make up their ratings.:S

spud1957 wrote:

Flashman wrote:

drittal wrote:

Me Again wrote:

drittal wrote:
For one, 2011-2014 f150 ecoboost was a different truck than the 2015.

The Aluminum body lighten it 1900 pounds?

No, 700lbs. But what else on the truck changed? Frame? Engine/trans Cooling? Suspension? Brakes? I don't know. Obviously the way ford sets tow ratings felt the new design was better somehow.

Fairy Dust?

:h It appears you aren't paying attention. In 2015, Ford began using J2807 to establish the F150/F450 tow ratings. In this case, the upgrades done to the 2015s and using the SAE standard, the ratings increased.

Not sure how else to explain it. If you feel better saying it's fairy dust, go ahead. They must have got it from the same place everyone else got it before J2807.

But it does not fit his agenda for this thread. And to think Fish gets a bad rap for his brand bias.

Flashman wrote:

drittal wrote:

Me Again wrote:

drittal wrote:
For one, 2011-2014 f150 ecoboost was a different truck than the 2015.

The Aluminum body lighten it 1900 pounds?

No, 700lbs. But what else on the truck changed? Frame? Engine/trans Cooling? Suspension? Brakes? I don't know. Obviously the way ford sets tow ratings felt the new design was better somehow.

Fairy Dust?

:h It appears you aren't paying attention. In 2015, Ford began using J2807 to establish the F150/F450 tow ratings. In this case, the upgrades done to the 2015s and using the SAE standard, the ratings increased.

Not sure how else to explain it. If you feel better saying it's fairy dust, go ahead. They must have got it from the same place Ram got it before J2807.