Jay Leno predicts demise of vehicles running on gas.

When the efficiency of EV hits your wallet you'll see the change. Many act as though installing an outlet requires a 2nd mortgage. It's no more costly than installing an outlet for AC or anything else.
When consumers see the efficiency of EV translates into reduce cost you will see change.
I agree inner city street parking will provide the biggest challenge but again it's not insurmountable. Condos and apartments are less of an issue. Designated parking with dedicated outlets is all feasible.
We are debating the will to get these things done not the ability to get it done.
As mentioned above technology can bring change overnight. The internet started relatively slow, many really didn't truly understand what it was all about.
Fast forward to today and the internet is a staple in most homes.
It is about to revolutionize the way we watch TV.
It has changed the way we shop.
While EV may not have the same impact as the internet it will change the way we see the automobile and dramatically alter our travel habits.
WE are think of cars as we now know them. That will all change.
EV will involve into smaller more nimble more efficient shuttle cars that take us on our local travels. We will all have these smaller more efficient vehicles for daily use. Our commute will be done by shuttle car.
Long distance travel may still be done by ICE, but the price of gas will likely increase until it becomes unaffordable for daily use.
This forced efficiency is coming. Climate change and all the buzz words will be part of the makeover. I'm not necessarily a proponent of EV's. I drive a diesel dually daily for my commute, but I see the writing on the wall.

time2roll wrote:
Imagine suburbia where people actually park in the garage as designed :E
Crazy talk....

$50,000 vehicle on the street to store $500 junk in the garage.

500 bucks? Nah. My junk is cheap. 300 tops. :)

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Hope this helps.

You are one sick puppy.

Imagine a garage that clean, that orderly and where cars can actually park?

Seriously, it's double wow!

Yah I hear ya. Two retired career Air Force techs. What did ya think was gonna happen. :)

Imagine suburbia where people actually park in the garage as designed :E
Crazy talk....

$50,000 vehicle on the street to store $500 junk in the garage.

Reisender wrote:

Hope this helps.

You are one sick puppy.

Imagine a garage that clean, that orderly and where cars can actually park?

Seriously, it's double wow!

lbrjet wrote:
Charging for apartments, condos and street parking are the biggest obtacles. Also charging for multiple cars in the driveway. For those of you that think this roadblock will be solved quickly are living in a dream world.

Another factor is cost. With the average age of a car on the road being eleven years old, that tells me that there are tens of millions of people that will never be able to spend more than 10K on an auto. Not sure what you can get for 5-10K price range with an EV.

I don't know about a big obstacle but it will probably involve an electrician for most people. Here's our story. We learned a couple things along the way and a couple things we would do different.

We live in a townhouse with a single car garage and two car driveway. The townhouse has a 100 amp service. We are a two car family. A good thing because we quite often use our garage for "projects". About 4 years ago when we bought our electric vehicles we decided to get a 240 volt 40 amp EVSE installed in the garage, or rather a 14-50 receptacle that would supply the EVSE. We bought the EVSE for around 500 bucks and paid about 350 to have the circuit put in. Kind of a waste as our cars can only charge at max 27 amps at 6.6 KW. Yeh. Except we rarely use the garage for parking due to earlier mentioned "projects". Sooooo we ended up using the included 12 amp 120 volt EVSE that came with the car that we hooked up to our 15 amp 120 volt christmas light soffitt plug. It was and is rare that we need to charge both cars at the same time so we made it work or just ran the cable from the big boy in the garage under the garage door. We are probably trading off one of our EVs next year for medium range EV with a much bigger battery. So last spring we had the electrician come over, do the calculation and figure out if we can add another 240 volt EVSE. We could but it would be a max 15 amp 240 volt circuit. No problem We ordered a Clipper Creek EVSE for 330 bucks and had him install the second circuit.

Hind sight says plan your EVSE location around your parking spots carefully. Involve an electrician early. We could have probably saved 800 bucks if we knew then what we know now.

But the point is houses or townhouses or even many condos can support two EVSE's with little expense. For the most part a 20 amp 240 circuit is adequate for each car for most people. If you can go bigger on one thats nice on days that you need a bigger charge.

Here's a few pics to give an idea of our oops moment and the fix. Technically we now have three EVSE's...which is kinda silly...but whatever. Its done.

The garage...workshop. Notice the EVSE on the right.



A close up of the EVSE. A juicebox 40. Way overkill for our cars but would be handy for a long range Tesla. The most popular Tesla can charge at a max 32 amps, the long range Teslas can charge at 48 amps. However the EVSE's supplied by Tesla with the car are max 32 amp.




This is or at least was probably our most used EVSE. 120 volt on a 15 amp circuit. We have a shorter commute usually under 30 KM sometimes longer. Charge every couple or three days was good. Now its our backup EVSE when the garage is "occupied" by a "project" LOL.



Last but not least. Here is the latest addition. A clipper creek 12 amp unit. Now we can both charge in the driveway at the same time. Doesn't happen really often but it does.



And a reference shot.



Moral of the story. If you are in a similar situation talk to an EV owner and get some input. You may need the bad boy big EVSE but more than likely not. Remember, in a pinch you can always visit a local DCFC site for a quick charge. Has never happened to us once yet.


Oh, and one more pic. Look what my bride painted on the garage floor for me. (I'm worth it...no really... LOL :)





Hope this helps.

Following this thread is a hoot ! ! So many OPINIONS... And so many people know everything there is to know !.. Thats why I keep coming back, 19 pages of entertainment....

Charging for apartments, condos and street parking are the biggest obtacles. Also charging for multiple cars in the driveway. For those of you that think this roadblock will be solved quickly are living in a dream world.

Another factor is cost. With the average age of a car on the road being eleven years old, that tells me that there are tens of millions of people that will never be able to spend more than 10K on an auto. Not sure what you can get for 5-10K price range with an EV.

Lantley wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Sorry but you guys are arguing EV will not expand because there is no place to plug them in ? Really? I can't imagine how we manage to Air condition the entire country? Somehow we got electric to all those houses. Big,small, rural,urban there is AC everywhere!
Imagine if A.C. didn't spread and move across the country because there was no electric.
Granted there are hurdles but installing electric plugs is not one of them.
The idea that the poor won't be able to afford electric? Somehow they have AC and can afford to put gas in their cars.
Building the mouse trap was the challenge, perfecting it and installing the infrastructure is the easy part.
I imagine there were not many roads as we know them, before the model T took over for the horse? Yet somehow we manage to implement the interstate system.
Yes it took time to replace the horse. But at some point there were a lot of gas stations built!
There will most likely be niche uses for the ICE for years to come, but EV vehicles will transform this country in my lifetime!
PS I'm not collecting social security yet...LOL

The cost of ownership for EV is actually now lower than conventional car of the same class and performance.

The biggest hurdle, sometimes psychologically, is the sticker-price shock with very people even bothering to do the total cost of ownership comparisons.

I understand but some are debating small simple points, like lack f places to plug them in. Those things will come in time.
Yes the market will initially be driven by the wealthy and middle class I don't think the poorest citizens are the target audience for EV, but eventually just like the iphone, the poor areas will have EV also.
Demand for charging will force condos and apartments to install infrastructure. Yes the grid will require upgrading and adaptation.
But none of these challenges are insurmountable.
The basic concept of the efficient clean burning EV. vs. the ICE will drive the transformation.
This is 2019 guys. Remember once upon a time there was no cable TV. Somehow we managed to wire the entire country including the poor areas! Yes poor people somehow afford cable TV too.
EV is here. Tesla has taken it off the drawing board and turned it into reality and just like the internet it is a worldwide phenomenon.
By the way do you remember a world without the internet?
Technology can change the world very quickly!

Technology tends to work more quickly when it fills (or creates) a large demand.

Using your examples, moving from horse & buggy to automobiles was a major shift in travel speed and comfort. Not so much with an EV over an ICE vehicle. The same goes for cable TV. Many more channels and available where over-the-air was spotty. That's something people will pay $ for which drives the infrastructure build out.

So IMHO, until EV's offer significantly more than just "not worse" than ICE powered vehicles, they will continue to grow at relatively slow rates with the earliest adopters first. In crowded cities, zero emissions is an example of "significantly more" but will still take legislation to force the change.

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Sorry but you guys are arguing EV will not expand because there is no place to plug them in ? Really? I can't imagine how we manage to Air condition the entire country? Somehow we got electric to all those houses. Big,small, rural,urban there is AC everywhere!
Imagine if A.C. didn't spread and move across the country because there was no electric.
Granted there are hurdles but installing electric plugs is not one of them.
The idea that the poor won't be able to afford electric? Somehow they have AC and can afford to put gas in their cars.
Building the mouse trap was the challenge, perfecting it and installing the infrastructure is the easy part.
I imagine there were not many roads as we know them, before the model T took over for the horse? Yet somehow we manage to implement the interstate system.
Yes it took time to replace the horse. But at some point there were a lot of gas stations built!
There will most likely be niche uses for the ICE for years to come, but EV vehicles will transform this country in my lifetime!
PS I'm not collecting social security yet...LOL

The cost of ownership for EV is actually now lower than conventional car of the same class and performance.

The biggest hurdle, sometimes psychologically, is the sticker-price shock with very people even bothering to do the total cost of ownership comparisons.

I understand but some are debating small simple points, like lack f places to plug them in. Those things will come in time.
Yes the market will initially be driven by the wealthy and middle class I don't think the poorest citizens are the target audience for EV, but eventually just like the iphone, the poor areas will have EV also.
Demand for charging will force condos and apartments to install infrastructure. Yes the grid will require upgrading and adaptation.
But none of these challenges are insurmountable.
The basic concept of the efficient clean burning EV. vs. the ICE will drive the transformation.
This is 2019 guys. Remember once upon a time there was no cable TV. Somehow we managed to wire the entire country including the poor areas! Yes poor people somehow afford cable TV too.
EV is here. Tesla has taken it off the drawing board and turned it into reality and just like the internet it is a worldwide phenomenon.
By the way do you remember a world without the internet?
Technology can change the world very quickly!