Live in Interesting times: Hyundai/ Kia want FCA

soren wrote:

Check the 70MPH remote controlled barrier crash with the Smart Car.

Have not seen this, but would be curious to see the g forces observed on the dummy after the test. My guess, lethal.

spoon059 wrote:

soren wrote:
Might want to get involved with a bit of education VS. assumption in that department. I'm no big fan of Smart cars, but they are, in fact, extraordinarily safe for their size, due to some interesting design features. They have an unusual steel "Exoskeleton" and have shown crashworthiness well above their class.

So I have a good friend who is a collision reconstructionist for our police department. He is part of the team that responds to all the fatal wrecks in our county. I've made your exact argument to him, and his response is as follows;

The Smart car is (or was at the time) a 5 star rated vehicle. That means that when it is crashed against similar size and weight vehicles it comes out well. That's great news!

Now comes the sobering reality... there are very few cars that are similar size and weight. At 1800 lbs, they simply don't have sufficient mass to absorb impact from a larger vehicle. They will get DESTROYED if hit by a typical half ton truck that weighs 3 times as much. Look at all the heavier SUV's, HD trucks, OTR trucks, delivery vans, etc on the road. Most vehicles on the road would cause serious damage to a Smart car.

5 Star ratings and cool exoskeletons are nice... but physics doesn't really care about that. Being "best in your class" doesn't mean much when you are the only one in your class. Being able to withstand cars twice your size is pretty good, but when you figure almost every car is twice your size and most are 3 to 4 times your size... that's not that great.

Your buddy is engaging in a whole lot of talk with zero science to back it up. Check the crash test done with the late 50's giant Chevy sedan, and the modern version of the same vehicle. High speed frontal offset and a HUGE weight and size difference. The new car literally knives through the passenger compartment of the old barge and destroys the driver. The driver of the newer vehicle would of been slightly injured. Check the 70MPH remote controlled barrier crash with the Smart Car. Check the video of the Mexican Nissan Sentra, that no longer met our ever improving crash standards, decades ago, but the Mexicans just stopped building a few months back. See how it performs against the current US version of Nissan's small car.

In a complete opposite observation from your buddy's opinion, I saw an early 70's GM cutlass convertible that was rear-ended to the point that the area from the bumper to the rear window was folded up like a whale tail. The doors were buckled and unopenable, and the thing burned to a crisp. The vehicle that struck it was largely intact, with uninjured occupants, and front doors that were opened. It was still rolling and steerable. That car was a Honda Element!!!

Crash ratings are developed by actually crashing vehicles. Your entire post is based on supposition and opinion, quite the opposite of how testing, and real world scientifically based results are gathered.

That exoskeleton means their might be a viewing.

soren wrote:
Might want to get involved with a bit of education VS. assumption in that department. I'm no big fan of Smart cars, but they are, in fact, extraordinarily safe for their size, due to some interesting design features. They have an unusual steel "Exoskeleton" and have shown crashworthiness well above their class.

So I have a good friend who is a collision reconstructionist for our police department. He is part of the team that responds to all the fatal wrecks in our county. I've made your exact argument to him, and his response is as follows;

The Smart car is (or was at the time) a 5 star rated vehicle. That means that when it is crashed against similar size and weight vehicles it comes out well. That's great news!

Now comes the sobering reality... there are very few cars that are similar size and weight. At 1800 lbs, they simply don't have sufficient mass to absorb impact from a larger vehicle. They will get DESTROYED if hit by a typical half ton truck that weighs 3 times as much. Look at all the heavier SUV's, HD trucks, OTR trucks, delivery vans, etc on the road. Most vehicles on the road would cause serious damage to a Smart car.

5 Star ratings and cool exoskeletons are nice... but physics doesn't really care about that. Being "best in your class" doesn't mean much when you are the only one in your class. Being able to withstand cars twice your size is pretty good, but when you figure almost every car is twice your size and most are 3 to 4 times your size... that's not that great.

SidecarFlip wrote:
Near Cabelas on US23, Exit 15 in Michigan of course, but it could have been farther north, closer to 96 I live here as well. I rarely see them. See more Mini Coopers than 500's, another car I find kind of pimple like.

Guy down the road has a yellow Smart Car. Really tiny, really ugly. Really unsafe on the road. I don't do small cars well, you are fair game on the highway from everything because, everything is bigger than you and here in Michigan you and I both know that one, no one pays any attention to the speed limit, two, tailgating is a popular pastime, three, hardly anyone uses their turn signals (must be an option on cars in Michigan) and four, because it's a no fault state, no one is at fault when you get mowed down,

Might want to get involved with a bit of education VS. assumption in that department. I'm no big fan of Smart cars, but they are, in fact, extraordinarily safe for their size, due to some interesting design features. They have an unusual steel "Exoskeleton" and have shown crashworthiness well above their class.

FishOnOne wrote:
Understood but a worse scenario is Chrysler is no longer a US controlled company. Nothing we can do about it... but we don't have to like it either.

Ummm... It has not been a US controlled company for nearly a decade.

FCA The F comes first, and it's for FIAT.

SidecarFlip wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
I think a Hyundai/Kia take over would be better than a Chinese takeover, but either way the Asian's will put their people in the top management positions.

Either way you won't find any of these brands in my garage.

Hate to break it to you but... They are already in your garage and have been. World Class Manufacturing means sourcing parts and assemblies worldwide (from all those countries), usually at the least expensive price.

Understood but a worse scenario is Chrysler is no longer a US controlled company. Nothing we can do about it... but we don't have to like it either.

SidecarFlip wrote:
I would NEVER buy a GM product after the 'bailout fiasco'.. GM 'Government Motors' should give every American Citizen over the age of 18, a new vehicle to offset the taxpayers money they received.

How soon people forget.

I would never base major decisions on something I have absolutely no control over.....like buying a new car.
Only people with too much time on their hands worry about stuff like what company is buying out another major company.

Have to Dodges, a new Chebby, old AMC Jeep in the garage currently and have piloted a somewhat equal number of all the big 3 with the odd VW, Volvo and Toyota thrown in.

Just bought a Nissan a few months ago too.

Out toys are made in Minnesota, Quebec, Tennesee and Japan. Brand loyalty is a front for personal insecurity, IMO.

If Hundai/Kia buy them, great. Sounds like more $ than Fiat can muster or manage.
As long as the next Cummjns truck or SRT doesn't come with a ricer fart can muffler on it, I'm good!

spoon059 wrote:

Bedlam wrote:
You didn't list one Fiat vehicle unless you like the Jeep Renegade.

That's semantics. FCA is the manufacturer of record for the 300C, Challenger and Jeep, therefore FCA makes those autos and Flash is right.
I believe that you meant that Fiat didn't bring any auto's into the FCA merger that you have an interest in. In that case, you would be right.

Either way, it would be interesting if Hyundai or Kia purchased the profitable vehicles from FCA. This is my first Chrysler product and I really like it a lot. I liked at Dodge Rams in 2009 and 2010 when I bought my Tundra and hated them. They looked cheap, I was concerned with quality, etc. Fast forward to 2015 and I was narrowed down to Ram and Ford gas trucks when I stumbled across my current rig, for sale used. Ram has really improved their product and got me interested again. In another 8 years, I hope they are around to give Ford and GM some competition when I look to buy another truck.

Actually if you look at what vehicles FCA can hang their hat on as being good selling vehicles for them were all developed by Daimler which includes Ram, Grand Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler with the four door configuration, Dodge Charger and Challenger although Fiat was done some refresh to them. Under Fiat (marchionne regime), Chrysler received the Dodge Dart, Chrysler 200M, Jeep Cherokee and Renegade in which the Dart and 200M received the axe and the Jeep Cherokee and Renegade are far and few to be seen on the road.

SidecarFlip wrote:
I would NEVER buy a GM product after the 'bailout fiasco'.. GM 'Government Motors' should give every American Citizen over the age of 18, a new vehicle to offset the taxpayers money they received.

How soon people forget.

Bashing both FCA and GM. You are showing yourself to be quite the troll.

Fortunately so far people have not taken the bait.