Looking for opinions on automatic vs stick

My bad, I misread HP curve.
Still if you read diagrams -higher HP engines have very steep curves, while 7.3l is much flatter at low rpm.
There is no replacement for displacement.
I sure like 6 l for the power and hope to like 6.7 even better, but when it comes to pushing heavy loads at idle, you can't beat 7.3

Kayteg1 wrote:
7.3 has 410 torque at 1400 rpm
2015 6.7 has 330 torque at 1400 rpm
As you can see above, the engine with almost double higher HP, lacks in torque at 1400 rpm , what you are using at starting.
Dare to find Cummins ?
Power is useful when you climb long grade at 75 mph, but will not help if you get rear-ended at green light ;)

Umm...your looking at the horsepower curve. The shows 660 lbs at 1400 rpm....



Cummins is similar...your 7.3 doesn't hold a candle. I loved mine too...but it is a dog compared to the modern diesels....in fact it is making the 7.3 peak tq at idle...lol.

7.3 has 410 torque at 1400 rpm
2015 6.7 has 330 torque at 1400 rpm
As you can see above, the engine with almost double higher HP, lacks in torque at 1400 rpm , what you are using at starting.
Dare to find Cummins ?
Power is useful when you climb long grade at 75 mph, but will not help if you get rear-ended at green light ;)
This is where low manual gearing comes extremely handy.

Kayteg1 wrote:
I drive diesels only. Fact is that to be fair, F450 had 7.3l with humongous low-end torque. Empty flatbed was 10,000lb and before getting better feel of the stick, I was starting it on 3rd gear just fine. Or 4th out of 6.
6l I had coupled to automatics has more HP, but sucks at low end.
I am shopping around for new DRW, RWD truck and hope the 6.7l is up to a task with automatic and 3.73 differential for my camper use.
I think that if you want auto transmission for heavy hauling, better get 4WD what will give you low gears when you need them.
Not that you have choice of manual anymore ;)

Whether your looking at a Cummins or Scorpion, both have 850 lbs and 900 lbs of tq...compared to the 7.3 and 6.0 you owned...almost double the tq you won't have ANY issue with power.
You still get a manual with the Ram....


I came from a tuned 7.3....and the power difference is not even comparable.

Jefe 4x4 wrote:
Auto transmissions now-o-days are light years ahead of the ones made even a decade ago. The loss in mpg's, visavis a manual has evaporated.

...man, you can say that again! Its nary impossible to find a stick in todays trucks (the exception: a Jeep Wrangler). Virtually every high-end sports car (even those costing well in excess of $200,000) have auto (paddle) shifters. I don't think that there is anyone alive that can outshift an automatic in a work truck-- either a Unimog electro-automatic EAS, or North American full-sized 6 or 8 speed auto pick-up -- (or, in the sports car genre: do a 2 Porsche competition: a stick 911 against a 911 GT3 auto tranny....the auto GT3 will win every time). The World's most sophisticated supercar-- the Aston Martin Vulcan ($2.6 million US), used a steering wheel mounted Xtrac, the transaxle sequential (TS) gearbox (this new road car will compete with a Formula 1 track car).

...that being said, I LOVE a stick, not because they are better than modern contemporary auto trannies, but because they are just fun to drive. We've been toying with getting a Wrangler (old and well used) just for the pure pleasure of driving a stick.....again.

I drive diesels only. Fact is that to be fair, F450 had 7.3l with humongous low-end torque. Empty flatbed was 10,000lb and before getting better feel of the stick, I was starting it on 3rd gear just fine. Or 4th out of 6.
6l I had coupled to automatics has more HP, but sucks at low end.
I am shopping around for new DRW, RWD truck and hope the 6.7l is up to a task with automatic and 3.73 differential for my camper use.
I think that if you want auto transmission for heavy hauling, better get 4WD what will give you low gears when you need them.
Not that you have choice of manual anymore ;)

Kayteg1 wrote:


I had ZF-6 in F450 and even with 15k trailer I would start on 1st on flat, using L only for steep grades. Never had a problem shifting L to 1, but going back could require double clutch or stop since L had no synchronizer.
When I switched to F550 with auto, I almost created couple of accidents. That thing would not move on green light and after cold night the truck would not pull up hotel driveway with 13k trailer. I had to back up on flatter spot and gain some momentum.
Now I have 5sp auto in my 2007 dually and even I don't haul heavy anymore, when I am carrying 4500lb camper and have to make red light stop on steep street, the feeling is similar. I punch the gas on green light and it takes like 3 seconds for the track to speed up to 3 mph.
Would hate to try it with heavy trailer.

Did you have the diesel, or the V10? If you had the diesel in that 450 what you're describing seems kind of odd. But if you had the V10, then maybe this is something to take into consideration for the OP. We have an F450 at work with the V10 and 6-speed. It's pretty smoked and beat, being a work truck and abused. Had a big flat bed on it and probably grosses 13k everyday. I know these guys have told me that even on the flat, they have to take off in low. Again, work truck and well abused by people that don't take care of the equipment. But a 450 should have the gearing for heavy loads. Maybe the gasser isn't up to it. Not that it doesn't do it, it's just a pain compared to if there was a diesel in it.

Again, this is all moot if yours was diesel and this was happening to you.

If comparing automatic transmissions, you really can't include even 10 year old ones in the same sentence with the newest ones. Night and day difference. In my '15 I have yet to have that "what the **** is it doing NOW?" feeling. It does the right thing, uphill and down. If you feel you know better, then you can shift it manually as it has a progressive manual shift mode. I haven't had the need, other than to play with it. About the only thing you can say bad about it is that it is complicated.

I think manuals in diesel trucks are probably effectively outlawed by emissions law. But again, in 2001, many more faults to find in the automatics.

getpower1 wrote:

Now, to expand on years and transmissions...it was a ZF-6 for the manual. It's a 6-speed technically speaking. I had one in my 1999 7.3. It's a really nice transmission as far as any manual transmissions go. ZF transmissions are very tight. These were used in all "super duty" trucks until they stopped offering manuals at all. Now, driving it, it's pretty much a 5-speed. First gear with 3.73s and 35" tires was so low that I couldn't shift out of it until I stopped. Started in "2nd" all the time.

I had ZF-6 in F450 and even with 15k trailer I would start on 1st on flat, using L only for steep grades. Never had a problem shifting L to 1, but going back could require double clutch or stop since L had no synchronizer.
When I switched to F550 with auto, I almost created couple of accidents. That thing would not move on green light and after cold night the truck would not pull up hotel driveway with 13k trailer. I had to back up on flatter spot and gain some momentum.
Now I have 5sp auto in my 2007 dually and even I don't haul heavy anymore, when I am carrying 4500lb camper and have to make red light stop on steep street, the feeling is similar. I punch the gas on green light and it takes like 3 seconds for the track to speed up to 3 mph.
Would hate to try it with heavy trailer.

mkirsch wrote:


Then I got stuck on the Mass Turnpike in stop-n-go traffic for 3+ hours. It wasn't the kind of stop-n-go where you could pop it out of gear and give your leg a rest, no... It was that kind of traffic where you'd move ahead 6 feet every 30 seconds, and if I didn't, six other drivers would start honking, cursing, and shaking their fists at me.

I couldn't walk right for several days and my left knee continues to hurt on and off to this day.

yep, same thing happened to me on the exit to Andrews air force base when I drove down to see Nixon? come back from China. what happened to the old Studebaker "hill holder"?
bumpy