Main Circuit Breaker Switch

retcsgt wrote:
My TT has 30 amp service now, just don't understand why they place all these appliances in it if main circuit breaker isn't going to allow them to work at same time. Is there any recourse from my point against the dealership that sold me the unit?

Golden HvAC said it best, and from my experience, he usually does.

Simply put (perhaps too simply) any electrical system is designed to allow many branch circuit amp ratings to total more than the main amp rating from a cost standpoint. You can run a bunch of things on many circuits that will not trip their individual branch circuit overload device, but will total more than the main can handle. There are a lot of misconceptions about how these systems are designed, but if you read the code book enough, you'll soon realize this is how it is. Check the panel in your stick house and you see I'm correct. The total of your specific and non-specific loads will exceed the rating of your main breaker, and that is allowed in code by percentage. Turn every thing in your house on at the same time and it will likely trip the main, but not any individual branch circuit breaker. I won't bore you with the nuts and bolts of why, but it's true in almost every case. It's set up that way for safety, as well as a best case (not every case, all case)day-to-day, cost-effective installation. You can up-grade these systems to handle all loads, all the time, every time, but most folks don't like the price point. There is a realist accepted standard that we tend to live with. The code book is a guide for minimum safe standards. You are free to pursue upgrades at the limitation of your purse strings as long as you adhere to those minimum standards. The importance of covering all loads, all the time, simply isn't that necessary for most people.

I do not believe that you have any legal recourse to your dealer unless he said to you , " you can run all this stuff at the same time ." Kinda like he sold you a truck with a speedometer that goes to 140 MPH . You have no right to expect that it will go that fast . Electric toys and electric usage in RVs grows and grows . Air conditioners are still options on many RVs as well as micro-waves . The Manufacturer installs what you demand , but you must learn to use it the way that the rest of us do . Shut the air off before using the micro-wave et/al . I think that you should have studied and checked before jumping in !

Hi,

It was sold as a 30 amp unit. Why would there be any recourse? Many homes have only a 100 amp service and there is rather rarely a problem with the main breaker tripping. In fact, I've never had one trip, nor do I know anyone who has had a problem.

It is rare that all the devices in an RV will be "on" at the same time.

There ARE some things you can do that will help you out, but they require changes to the RV.

Here are some ideas in a random order.

Add an auxiliary 20 amp shore power cord. If there is space in the power distribution center, add a female outlet and put a plug on the end of the items you wish to run on this "extra" service. I chose my water heater.

Add a double pole double throw switch and power the water heater or microwave. One position powers the micro, the other the water heater. The water will remain hot enough for a warm shower for about 8 hours. (I did not choose to do this, but others have.)

I added a second auxiliary cord which I use to power various items. Again I used simple male and female plugs, so I can switch back to the OEM configuration in about 20 seconds.

I have a good size inverter @ 2500 watts. I added a dedicated inverter outlet in the kitchen. This lets me use lots of power on a short term basis--and the converter will recharge the battery bank over time. I leave my inverter running when ever I am in the RV.

I also have a "break out box" which lets me use 50 amps at the pedestal if it is available. It gives me a 30 amp (with breaker), and two 20 amp (with breakers) outlets.

These modifications allow me to run 30 amps OEM, 20 amps aux, 15 amps aux, and 22 amps from the inverter outlets, all at the same time.

If there are only 15 amp circuits available I still have plenty of power for my needs, so long as there are three circuits of shore power available.

If there is a single 15 amp circuit available. I can run my water heater, and converter, while powering the rest of the RV from the inverter.

If I am boondocking I'm limited to the 22 amps the inverter will provide. But that is pretty close to the 24 amps that the OEM should be run at to keep to the 80% of capacity guide line.

In a pinch I can add a further 2 or 3 amps using a second 400 inverter.

I hope these ideas help you out.

retcsgt wrote:
My TT has 30 amp service now, just don't understand why they place all these appliances in it if main circuit breaker isn't going to allow them to work at same time. Is there any recourse from my point against the dealership that sold me the unit?

retcsgt wrote:
My TT has 30 amp service now, just don't understand why they place all these appliances in it if main circuit breaker isn't going to allow them to work at same time. Is there any recourse from my point against the dealership that sold me the unit?

Because you don't HAVE to use everything at once - that's why!
The availability of 220V/50A service at campgrounds used to be rare, 30A was more the norm and 15/20A was also quite common.
A 50A service (2 x 50A @ 120V) will provide 12,000 watts of power
A 30A service (1 x 30A @ 120V) will provide up to 3600 watts of power.
You choose what you want to run up to those limits.
Add the fact that 50A service requires MUCH heavier wiring and a split panel and the costs escalate dramatically.
I don't know many TTs that come with a 50A service, mostly higher end 5th wheels and Motor homes.
Many of us survive quite well with 30A service, it's just a question of managing the demand.
As for recourse against the dealership - give you head a shake! What exactly do you think he misled you about?
Now if you want to convert your rig to 50A, spend $1000+ and I'm sure a qualified electrician would be happy to do it for you!

Replacing the original 30 amp load center with 50 amp service, the installation of a new power inlet, and supplying a 50 amp shore power cord may be closer to $500-$700. A lot depends on how your rig is built and local labor costs.
An additional cost might also be any kind of home power hookup you are using, if you want to run everything at your home. Otherwise, a 50-30 amp adaptor will work if you have a dedicated 30 amp receptacle at home.

I do not run the a/c when I need to run the microwave if I have the water heater on electric otherwise my breaker will trip also.

Your unit is not defective. No one ripped you off. There fore there is not "recourse". You just can't run everything at the same time. That is the case for every RV made.
I can't imagine actually running everything you listed at the same time anyway. Who watches TV while making coffee, while ironing, while making toast, while using the microwave, while also drawing hot water?
You could help the situation by turning your refrigerator and WH to propane. This would reduce the load.

This reply is to KD4UPL. I'm glad you can't "imagine" and listed all the "while's" at what you can't/don't do. Have you ever heard of hypothetical terms? That's what I was using. As for the wanting to do? Yah, I stay at places I don't pay for electricity, why would I want to use propane? Any one in there right mind don't pay for what they don't have do. Nibble on that awhile.

Hi retcsgt,

"What if" questions are rarely useful.

KD4 was offering solutions (good ones, I might add). Even some 50 amp RV's require "load balancing". Find out what works for you.

I pay for things I don't have to on a regular basis. For example, I can cook a steak in my RV using solar energy stored in the battery bank, or I can go to a restaurant--and have the same meal and pay lots for it. Or I can buy some poor lost soul a meal, with the money I saved using solar power to make that food for myself.

BTW I'm a certified propane miser and in a thirteen month period spend $17.xx for that fuel. If I had purchased it in Minot the cost would have been under $1.00 per month.

retcsgt wrote:
My TT has 30 amp service now, just don't understand why they place all these appliances in it if main circuit breaker isn't going to allow them to work at same time. Is there any recourse from my point against the dealership that sold me the unit?

Your RV came with a toaster, iron, and coffee maker? Mine didn't.

It is ridiculous to think there is some sort of recourse. Your lack of understanding what you were buying and now your lack of understanding how to use it is not the dealer's fault.