Maximum payload question

IdaD wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
Max GVWR for 6.2 is 11,300.
Max GVWR for 6.7 is 11,500.

The extra weight of the diesel is the reason for the payload discrepancy.

Yep but payload is pretty meaningless since extra weight of the diesel is almost all on the front axle, while your cargo or pin weight will almost all be on the rear axle. Axle and tire ratings are the figures to know.

I would say the GVWR and its payload numbers are pretty much useless as you point out.
Case in point is the F350 srw which may come in a 10000 GVWR or a 11200 GVWR all in the same exact truck from rear bumper to the front bumper. LOL...the 10000 gvwr truck has a lower payload sticker....and its the same exact truck.
Both have the same brake systems which is dictated by the vehicles axle rating. Example is the two trucks I mentioned above with a 6000 FAWR and a 7230 RAWR = 13230 lbs of braking performance at a minimum.

OP..... use this from Ford for looking at Ford truck mechanical specs and weight numbers for Fords different year models. fleet ford specs

Terryallan wrote:
Actually max payload is all the truck is rated to carry, and all the BRAKES are designed to STOP. No matter where the weight is. The brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck.

BTW. at max GVWR. The brakes are not designed to stop ANY of the trailer.

Fairly certain that the axle rating takes into account the suspension, wheels, tires AND braking ability for the axle.

Furthermore, trucks are designed to be able to handle a certain amount of trailer load without brakes. On my Ram its either 3500 or 5000 lbs of trailer are allowed without requiring brakes (I'll have to check my manual, too lazy to go outside now though). Again... my Ram's braking system doesn't know if that weight is in the bed or on a trailer. It will just stop the load.

spoon059 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
Actually max payload is all the truck is rated to carry, and all the BRAKES are designed to STOP. No matter where the weight is. The brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck.

BTW. at max GVWR. The brakes are not designed to stop ANY of the trailer.

Fairly certain that the axle rating takes into account the suspension, wheels, tires AND braking ability for the axle.

Furthermore, trucks are designed to be able to handle a certain amount of trailer load without brakes. On my Ram its either 3500 or 5000 lbs of trailer are allowed without requiring brakes (I'll have to check my manual, too lazy to go outside now though). Again... my Ram's braking system doesn't know if that weight is in the bed or on a trailer. It will just stop the load.

I believe that you will find. the brakes are in fact rated to stop the GVWR of the vehicle. meaning the brakes will stop the truck, and trailer well if they add up to the GVWR of the truck. Every thing over the GVWR is stopped by trailer brakes. A fellow that designed brakes. Finally convinced me of that, after I argued with him for several months. Because I towed pups with no brakes. and did fine. He proved to me that the truck had enough payload to cover most all of the weight of the pup.

But when fully loaded to GVWR. It was only to stop the truck. Just like tow capacity. every pound you put in the truck reduced the tow capacity. I suspect the same is true of the no trailer braking you mention. could be 5k when towing with a empty truck, but is reduced as you load the truck. but then I've been wrong before.

Terryallan wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
Actually max payload is all the truck is rated to carry, and all the BRAKES are designed to STOP. No matter where the weight is. The brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck.

BTW. at max GVWR. The brakes are not designed to stop ANY of the trailer.

Fairly certain that the axle rating takes into account the suspension, wheels, tires AND braking ability for the axle.

Furthermore, trucks are designed to be able to handle a certain amount of trailer load without brakes. On my Ram its either 3500 or 5000 lbs of trailer are allowed without requiring brakes (I'll have to check my manual, too lazy to go outside now though). Again... my Ram's braking system doesn't know if that weight is in the bed or on a trailer. It will just stop the load.

I believe that you will find. the brakes are in fact rated to stop the GVWR of the vehicle. meaning the brakes will stop the truck, and trailer well if they add up to the GVWR of the truck. Every thing over the GVWR is stopped by trailer brakes. A fellow that designed brakes. Finally convinced me of that, after I argued with him for several months. Because I towed pups with no brakes. and did fine. He proved to me that the truck had enough payload to cover most all of the weight of the pup.

But when fully loaded to GVWR. It was only to stop the truck. Just like tow capacity. every pound you put in the truck reduced the tow capacity. I suspect the same is true of the no trailer braking you mention. could be 5k when towing with a empty truck, but is reduced as you load the truck. but then I've been wrong before.

So are you telling me, that my brakes on my 2500 (which are identical to the brakes of the DRW 3500 per the Ram Bodybuilder) will only stop up to the 10k GVWR of my 2500? What happens when they are on a DRW 3500? Is there some kind of ferry dust that gets sprinkled on them to make them stop a higher GVWR truck even though they are the same?

ShinerBock wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
Actually max payload is all the truck is rated to carry, and all the BRAKES are designed to STOP. No matter where the weight is. The brakes are only designed to stop the GVWR of the truck.

BTW. at max GVWR. The brakes are not designed to stop ANY of the trailer.

Fairly certain that the axle rating takes into account the suspension, wheels, tires AND braking ability for the axle.

Furthermore, trucks are designed to be able to handle a certain amount of trailer load without brakes. On my Ram its either 3500 or 5000 lbs of trailer are allowed without requiring brakes (I'll have to check my manual, too lazy to go outside now though). Again... my Ram's braking system doesn't know if that weight is in the bed or on a trailer. It will just stop the load.

I believe that you will find. the brakes are in fact rated to stop the GVWR of the vehicle. meaning the brakes will stop the truck, and trailer well if they add up to the GVWR of the truck. Every thing over the GVWR is stopped by trailer brakes. A fellow that designed brakes. Finally convinced me of that, after I argued with him for several months. Because I towed pups with no brakes. and did fine. He proved to me that the truck had enough payload to cover most all of the weight of the pup.

But when fully loaded to GVWR. It was only to stop the truck. Just like tow capacity. every pound you put in the truck reduced the tow capacity. I suspect the same is true of the no trailer braking you mention. could be 5k when towing with a empty truck, but is reduced as you load the truck. but then I've been wrong before.

So are you telling me, that my brakes on my 2500 (which are identical to the brakes of the DRW 3500 per the Ram Bodybuilder) will only stop up to the 10k GVWR of my 2500? What happens when they are on a DRW 3500? Is there some kind of ferry dust that gets sprinkled on them to make them stop a higher GVWR truck even though they are the same?

Exactly!

The manufacture puts heavy springs under their vehicle and put's a 3 cent sticker on the door and it's all good with RV.net members.

I put the EXACT springs on the vehicle and no sticker and all of a sudden I'm putting woman and children on the road in danger.

They have the exact brakes, the exact frame, the exact tranny, the exact same engine but that 3 cent sticker is magic!! It makes all the difference in the world for some on here.

Classic rvnet payload discussion!

I believe that you will find. the brakes are in fact rated to stop the GVWR of the vehicle

Brakes can easily stop a trucks gvwr as the trucks brakes are designed and tested by the truck mfg (before FMVSS testing) to stop the rating of each axle system.
My 2500 Dodge has a 5200 fawr and 6000 rawr = 11200 lbs of braking performance at a minimum. And as was mentioned a 3/4 ton trucks brake systems may be same as their bigger one ton brothers.


NHTSA says this about components of the GAWR:
"Gross Axle Weight Rating is the rated load-carrying capacity of an individual axle and wheel assembly. (It represents the load that may be steadily sustained by the components in the system; i.e., tires, rims, hubs, bearing, axles, brakes, suspension, sub frame, etc. with the GAWR limited by the components with the lowest working rating".

and even rubber mfg mentions brakes ;
RMA

• GAWR: Gross Axle Weight Rating (for each axle) -
The maximum weight rating that the components
(tires, rims/wheels, brakes, springs, and axle) of
each axle are designed to support. This is
determined by the lowest design capacity of any
component. In other words, if the wheels have the
lowest design capacity of any component on that
axle, installing tires with a higher load capacity
does not increase the GAWR. By regulation, the
tire load rating times the number of tires on that
axle must equal or exceed the GAWR for that axle."

Quite a discussion/argument when the OP's question was why the difference in the two payload ratings.

Answer = the diesel engine does get a slight higher GVWR than the gas but since the diesel engine weighs more, it ends up with a lower payload.

Turtle n Peeps wrote:


Exactly!

The manufacture puts heavy springs under their vehicle and put's a 3 cent sticker on the door and it's all good with RV.net members.

I put the EXACT springs on the vehicle and no sticker and all of a sudden I'm putting woman and children on the road in danger.

They have the exact brakes, the exact frame, the exact tranny, the exact same engine but that 3 cent sticker is magic!! It makes all the difference in the world for some on here.

Yep! Once that sticker is applied to a truck then the axle, brakes, suspension, and frame automatically get weaker to match the sticker. It's magic I tell you.

The question is not "will it stop", the question is "how long will it take". Anyone who thinks the truck will stop as quickly with a load needs to think again... which is why state laws require trailers over a specific weight to have brakes.