Navistar to start building GM midsize Vans

travelnutz wrote:
ShinerBock,

I lived it!

2003 Duramax 6.6 LB7 engine specs:

Specifications[edit]
Engine type: 6,599 cc (402.7 cu in) V8 turbo
Bore x Stroke: 4.06 in (103 mm) x 3.90 in (99 mm)
Block / Head: Iron / aluminum
Aspiration: Turbocharged & Intercooled
Valvetrain: OHV 4-V
Compression: 17.5:1
Injection: Direct; Robert Bosch GmbH high pressure common-rail
Power / Torque: 300 bhp (220 kW) @ 3100 rpm / 520 lb·ft (705 N·m) @1800 rpm
Source:[2]

From the engineering manual!

"Eating their lunch" as in sales!

That is for the 2004 Duramax which was after Ford already made the change to the 6.0L so they were reacting to "getting their lunch eaten". The 2001-2003 LB7 had 235 hp and 500 lb-ft which was less than the 2001-2003 7.3L.

DURAMAX TIMELINE

POWER STROKE TIMELINE

They weren't necessarily "eating their lunch" in sales either.

It is FULL-SIZE VANS
They are Cut-away
They are assembling

It has nothing to do with engines.

This was a decision for GM to increase production of the Mid-Size Pickup - Colorado and Canyon as well as the old, out-dated, full-size, body-on-frame Express and Savana vans.

These vehicles are built in the same plan plant in Missouri, USA. GM is running the plant 24 hours a day, 6 and 7 days a week. They can not produce enough to satisfy demand.

ShinerBock,

I lived it!

2003 Duramax 6.6 LB7 engine specs:

Specifications[edit]
Engine type: 6,599 cc (402.7 cu in) V8 turbo
Bore x Stroke: 4.06 in (103 mm) x 3.90 in (99 mm)
Block / Head: Iron / aluminum
Aspiration: Turbocharged & Intercooled
Valvetrain: OHV 4-V
Compression: 17.5:1
Injection: Direct; Robert Bosch GmbH high pressure common-rail
Power / Torque: 300 bhp (220 kW) @ 3100 rpm / 520 lb·ft (705 N·m) @1800 rpm
Source:[2]

From the engineering manual!

"Eating their lunch" as in sales!

ShinerBock wrote:
I guess since Ford and CAT ended their partnership with Navistar(International) to build their trucks and engines, now GM will being partnering with them to build their midsize vehicles.

Navistar to Build Vans for GM Under Long-Term Contract

No where does it say they are building engines for GM just building, assembling putting together GM supplied parts? As for what they will be building in the medium truck GM arena. Are they building any? Other then using Isuzu Motors rebadged as Chevy's? LINK LINK to Chevrolet commercial web page What do they make at the Wentzville, Mo plant? OK looks like they build the Express, Savana, Colorado, Canyon. So maybe this move is to open up more production capacity for the new Colorado & Canyon? Still can't find anything as to what mid-size trucks they build there. Unless they are considering the cut away as a mid-size truck?

Don

travelnutz wrote:
Probably the biggest problem with the Ford/Navistar diesel engine is that Ford demanded the engine ready for production in 2003 because they were getting their lunch eaten by Duramax and Cummins and the 6.0 engine was still approx 2 years from being actually ready with the bugs worked out and thorough and complete reliability testing having been completed. On file is the objection from Navistar for early release for production. Ford made the rules and had the controls it bit them hard! Notice that Ford didn't win their big lawsuit with Navistar? Both had some fault in the matter but Ford called the shots!

The release of the 6.0L later in 2003 was due to the upcoming 2004 emission standards, nothing more. It is the same reason why Cummins went to high pressure common rail in 2003, and the Duramax LLY engine was introduced in 2004. If you look at the changes of all the pickup diesels along with the different Ford diesel engines and the 1994, 1998, 2004, 2007, and 2010 emissions standards changes, you will notice they coincide with each other.

Also, I am not sure what you mean by getting their lunch eaten. The 2001,2002, and 2003 7.3L with an auto trans made 250 hp/505 lb-ft, the 2003 Duramax auto made 235 hp/500 lb-ft, and the Cummins auto made 235 hp/460 lb-ft. Where in that do you see the 7.3L having it's lunch eaten?

Probably the biggest problem with the Ford/Navistar diesel engine is that Ford demanded the engine ready for production in 2003 because they were getting their lunch eaten by Duramax and Cummins and the 6.0 engine was still approx 2 years from being actually ready with the bugs worked out and thorough and complete reliability testing having been completed. On file is the objection from Navistar for early release for production. Ford made the rules and had the controls it bit them hard! Notice that Ford didn't win their big lawsuit with Navistar? Both had some fault in the matter but Ford called the shots!

blt2ski wrote:

garyp4951 wrote:
I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

Navigator in general builds one of the better motors out there. Issue becomes, when others try to modify it beyond its design limits. IE Ford with the 6.0/6.4 v8. Or not using the proper or not using filters as required. While I will not put ALL the blame on Ford, they are more than half of the issue imho.

Marty

I completely disagree with Ford being responsible for more than half the issues, but that's another story. As a matter of fact Ford financially blocked several hostile take overs of Navistar and loaned out their designers/engineers to help improve the looks and product design of the Navistar line up so Navistar could stay afloat and oontinue to supply Ford diesel engines.

Navistar design philosophy for the 2010 emissions standard was to increase EGR usage that just about killed their reputation and their business. I thought I read there was a period where they had to outsource all Cummins engines for their trucks because their emissions design methods wasn't working and they were in a serious pickle including their CEO. This occurred right after Ford divorced Navistar.

On a different note, I personally know one guy at work who has a '09 6.4 PSD that gets driven mostly highway miles that has over 250k miles and the engine hasn't been touched except for a idler pulley. As a matter of fact he recently had his transmission replaced due to the fact it still had the factory oil and filter so it's obvious this guy doesn't stay on top of maintenance. The 6.4 IMO is only good as a highway runner just like the first year Duramax and Cummins with DPF's and all three suffered from "Making Oil" with the Duramax handling the DPF emissions equipment probably the best.

I wish GM well with this new relationship, but they better perform routine manufacturing audits and keep their finger on the pulse to ensure Navistar makes a quality product.

garyp4951 wrote:
I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

Navigator in general builds one of the better motors out there. Issue becomes, when others try to modify it beyond its design limits. IE Ford with the 6.0/6.4 v8. Or not using the proper or not using filters as required. While I will not put ALL the blame on Ford, they are more than half of the issue imho.

Marty

I hope they don't use a Navistar engine.

Dadoffourgirls wrote:
Your title and statement are incorrect. Navistar will be assembling the Express and Savana Cut-away Full-Size Vans.

To"may"to.....To"mah"to... I will still say make. After all, I don't say that a baker "assembles" a cake even though he didn't grow, harvest, produce, or distributed the individual pieces of a cake.