Need Some Advice on Used TT Purchase

I still think you're confused on what some of the weights mean. GCWR is the gross combined weight rating. It means the max weight of the tow vehicle and the trailer together. The max weight of your Armada (GVWR) is 6800lbs so if you loaded it to the max then the trailer can weigh no more than 7800lbs. (14,600 - 6800 = 7800) Thats assuming you can still stay within your payload, axle and tire ratings as well which I think we proved you won't be able to with a trailer that heavy.

A 7800lbs trailer will have a tongue weight over 1000lbs. That weight counts towards your Armadas' payload rating (1400lbs) leaving you only 400lbs for your passengers and any stuff you carry in the truck.

If you really need a trailer that big you'll need a bigger tow vehicle.

There are a lot of numbers to be concerned with when towing. Some more important than others. You need to be concerned with the Armadas payload the most as it will max out well before reaching any other limit. Next is the trailers tongue weight, because it counts directly towards your payload.

Let's fix the numbers from your previous post.

Cargo in the Armada itself can not go over 1421 lbs.
Vehicle Weight: 6800(GVWR)
Occupants: 575 (counts towards payload)
Car Seats: 50 (counts towards payload)
Extra: 100 (counts towards payload)

Total = 725lbs of weight added to the truck
subtract that from max payload of 1421lbs = 696lbs (1421-725)
subtract another 75lbs for the weight of the WD hitch you need to tow with(696-75) = 621lbs

621lbs is what is left of payload. That is the maximum amount of weight that the truck can still carry before reaching its GVWR (6800lbs). The portion of the trailers weight that is carried by the tongue is added to the truck and counts towards the payload. Therefore the tongue weight of the loaded trailer cannot weigh more than 621lbs. A properly balanced trailer has about 13% of its weight carried by the tongue. So for example a 4800lbs trailer at 13% would have a tongue weight of 624lbs

In this case your looking at a trailer that weighs no more than 4800lbs loaded up. If you pack 800lbs worth of stuff into it (not hard for a family of 5) would mean the trailer weighs 4000lbs empty. Dry weight would be even less since it doesn't include options, propane, batteries etc.

To be safe and stay within limits you need a trailer that is under 4000lbs dry weight and under 5000lbs loaded otherwise you need a tow vehicle with more available payload (think 3/4ton truck or SUV)

I think you'll be fine if you stay down on the weight.
I pull a Rockwood 2701ss ultra lite that is 31' over all length. It weighs in at 5820lbs loaded with all my camping gear (chairs tables,grills supplies) no food or personal stuff."

By the way our trailer has a tongue wt if 660lbs.
stay within these type of limits you should do fine. just my 2cents.....snip.....


I think we found one! It's a 2007 Rockwood Ultralite (it's the 33'). We've got the Tow Package, so the GCWR is about 14,600. We should be able to stay under that--maybe not under 10% though). It'll be close---but we need every bit of space in that thing. The price is perfect on it, too.

Some numbers there do not sound correct to me. A tongue weight of 660 pounds on a trailer of over 5800 pounds is 8.8%.
A more typical travel trailer tongue weight "in the real world" is closer to ( and desirable to be ) 12 to 15%.
A big, high walled, long trailer with under 9% tongue sounds like a prescription for sway to me.
I go back to my earlier post in this thread: "....it's your family..."

Tow ratings are done with FLAT payloads like a utility trailer and sheets of steel. The rating DOES NOT take into account wind resistance....side wind (sway)...or stopping!!!!. I will bet if you buy anything close to what you just stated you are going to...regret it....and have one hell of a time trying to control it. I tow with a Ford Excursion with a V10 and there are those on here that swear you need to alter it to tow properly. To be BLUNT....your vehicle was NEVER intended to do what you are looking to do. You DO NOT have enough vehicle for anything over 25 foot and 5000 pounds...MAXIMUM. This is from someone that has been towing since the early 80's and towed well over 250,000 miles. You wanted replys from those with experience....now LISTEN

I just don't think he gets it.

kv800t wrote:
I think you'll be fine if you stay down on the weight.
I pull a Rockwood 2701ss ultra lite that is 31' over all length. It weighs in at 5820lbs loaded with all my camping gear (chairs tables,grills supplies) no food or personal stuff."

By the way our trailer has a tongue wt if 660lbs.
stay within these type of limits you should do fine. just my 2cents.

I think we found one! It's a 2007 Rockwood Ultralite (it's the 33'). We've got the Tow Package, so the GCWR is about 14,600. We should be able to stay under that--maybe not under 10% though). It'll be close---but we need every bit of space in that thing. The price is perfect on it, too.

Hi OP. I have some friends in your exact situation and looking for the same thing, only their tow veh is an 09 Expedition. They DID find what they were looking for, except they had to compromise on having a slide out b/c of weight. They found an older Springdale BH in their tight budget of under 8k. IDK anything about the technical aspects, as we didn't have to worry about tow capacity with our truck. I just want to assure you your camper IS OUT THERE. Best of luck!

Cargo in the Armada itself can not go over 1421 lbs.

Vehicle Weight: 6800
Occupants: 575
Car Seats: 50
Extra: 100 (Tops)

Sorry, just noticed your payload of 1421lbs. From this you need to subtract 575, 50 and 100lbs leaving you 696lbs of payload left. That is the most that the hitch and trailer tongue weight can weigh and still stay within your Armadas GVWR(6800lbs)

If the WD hitch weighs 75lbs then you have 621lbs for the loaded tongue weight. Assuming the average 13% that would get you a trailer around 5000lbs LOADED weight.

Don't be discouraged as there are still plenty of trailers out there in that weight range that will meet your needs.

I think you'll be fine if you stay down on the weight.
I pull a Rockwood 2701ss ultra lite that is 31' over all length. It weighs in at 5820lbs loaded with all my camping gear (chairs tables,grills supplies) no food or personal stuff. Checked on cat scales. Empty wt 4951. as shipped 5369 hook to truck 5820. It has all the things you mentioned,slide,bunks,room and low weight. I pull it with a 1/2 ton truck with no problems. You would do your self a favor to try to find a ultra lite trailer such as mine. My truck has a tow rating of 9600lbs. and it's very doable. I would not want much more weight or length.

By the way our trailer has a tongue wt if 660lbs.
stay within these type of limits you should do fine. just my 2cents.

So--

Cargo in the Armada itself can not go over 1421 lbs.

Vehicle Weight: 6800
Occupants: 575
Car Seats: 50
Extra: 100 (Tops)

Weight: 7525


GAWR Front is 3200 lbs
GAWR Read is 4200 lbs
GCVW: 14,600

Left: 7,075 - 15% = 6,014

20 lbs fresh water (8 x 20)= 160
Clothes/Food/Gear=250 lbs

Left: 5,604

That sounds about where I actually SHOULD be. Am I looking at it right?

No, you're looking at it wrong. You need to look at the numbers for your tow vehicle first. Forget about the trailer.

What is your Armadas payload rating? You'll find it on the sticker on the drivers door jamb. The payload is simply the amount of weight the vehicle can carry up to its max GVWR. It includes passengers, gear, hitch, and tongue weight added to the truck. Or to put it another way it is the GVWR minus the empty (curb) weight.

Your GVWR is 6800lbs. From the internet the curb weights seem to average around 5100lbs. So your payload would be in the neighborhood of 1700lbs. (6800 - 5100) but check your sticker.

From the 1700lbs in this example you'll need to subtract the weight of any people and stuff you will carry in the truck while travelling. So take off 575lbs, 50lbs and 100lbs leaving you 875lbs. Factor in another 75lbs for the weight of the hitch and you have 800lbs left over. That is what is left for the tongue weight of the trailer.

Now you can consider the trailer. You mentioned earlier that the dealer said tongue weight is included in the trailer weight. If the trailer was not hooked up and was sitting on a scale alone then the tongue weight is included. However, once you hook the trailer to your truck and raise the jack then a percentage of the trailers weight is now being carried by your Armada. How much varies for every trailer and how it's loaded. The average for stable towing tends to be around 13% of the trailers LOADED weight. Forget the dry weights because you will never tow it empty.

A trailer that weighed 6100lbs (loaded) would have a tongue weight around 800lbs assuming the 13% average. The average family will add 800-1200lbs worth of stuff to their trailer. To be safe I would look for a trailer that was around 5000lbs or less delivered weight (not dry)

Again these are hypothetical numbers. Only way to know for sure is to load up and hit the scales. If you're not able to then you can estimate your weights or some people will use 13% of the trailers max GVWR as an estimate. If you're safe with the tongue at the trailers heaviest allowable then you will be safe at any weight under that. I don't personally because I will never load it anywhere near my GVWR so why account for weight I will never take.

Heavy Metal Doctor wrote:

I thought the whole purpose of weight distribution hitch was to change the load characteristic when your tongue weight goes over the rated tongue weight capacity of the vehicle. In this case, the Armada can carry 900 lb tongue weight - if you have more tongue weight than that, then you must use a WDH to spread that 1500lbs out over the whole TV.....maybe I don't get it???....am I crazy or what?

You have the right concept, but the limits are too high. The weight carrying rating of the receivers for most half tons is in the 500-600 pound range. Anything more than that requires a WDH which puts the limits in the 850-1150 pound range. The Armada limit with WDH is likely 910 pounds. Note my receiver limits:



These numbers are independent of the available rear axle load and payload.