Need some advice

So general idea on here is my truck won't pull either we are looking at. ..and possibly not even the jayco that weighs 4600lbs

summitpower, My truck has a "tow rating" of 11,300... My truck will tow either of those trailers "by the numbers" too....

I'm towing a little 22', 5,000 TT with it and of course, it does it without any stress on me or the truck at all.

I towed it with a 97 F150 with a 5.4 in it for over 12 years and it did it well too... For what that truck was at the time..

I've towed trailers for the last 30+ years and have towed overloaded and have towed under the limits of the tow vehicle many times from coast to coast too.

Guess what my preference is now? :)

I would go up to around a 7500 GVWR trailer with my current truck if that time ever comes.. But, I'm not looking to change anytime soon. (notice I didn't include any DRY weight.. ;) )

If all you are going to do is take either of those trailers to your site and park it, you could probably do that with your current truck... It won't be the best combo by any means, but that's what maxing out ANY vehicle is going to be like.. Matching your trucks "tow rating" to a trailers "dry weight" is going to MAX out the vehicle.. No matter how you want to justify the numbers.. ;)

The only other thing I'd do is leave the family and anything else behind for the initial trip..

Drive back home, load up the family and whatever else you want and enjoy!

Shop for the new truck for future road trips.

Take what you learned on driving that empty trailer and empty truck no other passengers and stuff and use that to decide what your new truck needs to do for you loaded up with people and stuff. As well as the trailer being loaded up with stuff!

Good luck and we've all been where you are.. But, we usually only learned from the actual experience and adjusted from there, so you not having any experience yet.... What the dealer is telling you, is yes, by the numbers, your truck can tow this trailer... But, what he isn't telling you, is that once you load it up and the truck, you won't like it at all... ;)

Good luck!

Mitch

summitpower wrote:
Also we had planned to stay in michigan on any travels until truck was upgraded, never planned on going thru mountains worth this truck

To add to my post about our last truck, the '10 Chevy, I never felt a lack of power towing here in Michigan. While your over on the West side, if your familiar with the gradual incline just North of West Branch, it was never an issue, "power wise". And our trailer at the time was probably a little heavier than the 7200lbs due to it being our big trip of the year at S. Higgins Lk St Park!!! I don't know for sure, but have read it is about a 6% grade. Maybe some others know for sure????

summitpower wrote:
So not trying to sound stupid but, my truck will haul 7180, I weigh 220 and wife is 115 all 3 kids combined are 100, I wouldn't travel with water tanks full, and if we take dogs we would take 2 vehicles...also I didn't plan on going to 3/4 ton next year...just was going to get different ram with a V8

While it may be tough, do not even really consider what the trucks "tow rating" is, regardless of if it's your current truck or the next truck until you confirm the truck will have the payload for all the things I mentioned in my previous post..... Once you have confirmed adequate payload (taking into account the 100lbs of kids will continue to get heavier!), then confirm the truck has the most proper tow rating by having the correct motor, trans, axle ratio, tow package, etc.... Understand the tow rating are based on 2 people (I think based on 150lbs each) in the truck (when the new standard tow test is used), with a 10%tw and a flat bed trailer. Once you exceed the passenger weight, the tw, and try haulin a high walked rolling brick (travel trailer) the tow rating is reduced. Some vehicles even have a limit for the surface are of the front of the tt (or enclosed trailer) due to wind drag.

The Shadow Cruiser has a "brochure" dry tw of 675lbs, add a battery and 2 full 20lb propane tanks and it is already ~800lbs, before even loading the trailer. You could possibly see a tw of 900lbs+, if not more. The Dutchmen had a "brochure" dry tw of 881lbs, so not sure if it's 2-20lb tanks or 2-30lb tanks, but with a battery and 2-20lb propane tanks you are already at ~1000lbs tw, again before loading anything else for a trip.... The Durchmen had a front pass through storage, not sure about the Shadow from the floor plan on their website, but any trailer that does have a front pass through storage adds most of the stored items weight to the tw of the trailer. That can add up. As a comparison our "brochure" dry tw of 920lbs for our 32 BHDS is about 1400lbs loaded. That tw alone is all most as much as most 1500/150 trucks have for available payload.

Obviously in the end you can only decide what is best for you and your family, but some of us have been in your shoes. Our last truck was a Chevy Silverado 1500 CCSB 5.3/6spd/3.42 4x4 with a "tow rating of" 9600lbs (or 9500lbs, right around that amount). Towing ~7200lbs with ~920lbs tw we were over the gvwr of the truck by about 200lbs. That was with 4 bikes, a tool box, and I think a cooler in the bed, and maybe a couple 2x10's for leveling the trailer, and a family weight of about 460lbs. Granted, I did have a cab high truck topper, spray in bed liner, and step bars on the truck, but hopefully you can see how quickly the weight adds up. And our twin boys were only 10yrs old at the time.

Also take into account that the Ram trucks generally have a little less payload than the comparable GM Twins or Ford. POWER WISE, a hemi with the correct axle ratio won't have any issues with what your looking at. It all comes down to the payload of the truck!!!

One thing to watch with having a fridge in a slide is possible cooling issues due to less air flow for the fridge. Some members have installed fans to help the airflow. Something to keep in mind. We almost went with a kitchen slide that had a floor plan comparable to what we have otherwise. One other thing to keep in mind is the awning possibly rubbing on the slide. But a couple pool noodles can solve that issue. Our main reason was a curtain vs door for the bunk room.

I will say having an entrance directly into the bathroom is awesome!!! A very nice convenience.

Good luck!!!

summitpower wrote:
So not trying to sound stupid but, my truck will haul 7180, I weigh 220 and wife is 115 all 3 kids combined are 100, I wouldn't travel with water tanks full, and if we take dogs we would take 2 vehicles...also I didn't plan on going to 3/4 ton next year...just was going to get different ram with a V8

Executive summary says both those TTs are waaay to much for your 1/2 ton V6.

You don't understand weights yet. Before you lay out the cash you need to do more research until you do. What are you going to do when you buy a TT that is way too much for your truck and learn on the way home that your truck is inadequate? Or if you lose control somewhere. Or if you find you can't make more than 30 mph up a hill? Do you have a spot at home to park it for a year while saving up for a new truck?

The majority of 1/2 ton trucks have a limit of around 7,000 actual wt. and that's with a V8 and decent diff. gears. We used to tow a 5,000 lb actual weight TT with a 1/2 ton V6 (non-turbo) and it was painfully slow and under-powered. You need to post info. on your truck so you can get more useful comments - year, engine size, long/short bed, reg/ext./crew cab, 2WD/4WD, rear end ratio, etc.

Most dealers are shady or plain ignorant and will say anything to get a sale. The salesman may *seem* like the kinda guy you want to invite over for a Sunday dinner, but they are a wolf in sheep's clothing. Wait until you have warranty issues that need to be fixed and you find out how incompetent they are, flat out refuse to do some things or take 4-8 weeks to do even simple repairs. A dealer can turn the best TT out there into a nightmare and when you find out, there's nothing you can do. Some factories are useless for helping owners too. Investigate the quality of a dealer before purchasing from them. A dealer's prime objective is to make a sale and that's it. Never let them install a WDH for you either.

NEVER, EVER buy a travel trailer based on factory dry weights. EVER. As mentioned above, they are totally useless and can get you into serious trouble. Use the GVWR figure which is the max. a TT can weigh (due to limitations of the frame and suspension). Some TT manufacturers don't list a GVWR like in the Dutchman aerolite 282dbhs so you need to take the cargo carrying capacity of 1307 lbs and add it to the shipping weight of 6293 to get 7600 lbs GVWR. The Shadow Cruiser has a GVWR of 7635 lbs. Both have a length of around 32/33'. Very few 1/2 ton trucks can handle those and need to be properly optioned. You might look at the truck's GCWR too (total truck and trailer wt. rating).

Added weight of all your cargo in a TT (sewer stuff, chocks, BBQ, clothes, dishes, food, books, some tools, etc., etc. plus propane tanks and batteries) can add around 700 - 1500 lbs on top of a factory UVW. A published UVW figure won't include options you've ordered. This is another reason why it is very important NOT to use a UVW dry weight number for a trailer's weight. The Shadow Cruiser has a much higher CCC (2,000 lbs vs. 1307) and is one reason to choose it over the other. It may have a stronger frame and suspension. Just one full holding tank could add 100-200 lbs of tongue wt. depending on where tanks are located.

Payload capacity of a tow vehicle is waaay more important than it's towing capacity. Focus on payload capacity. If you intend to use the 1/2 ton truck for towing a TT, take it to a scale fully loaded up and subtract it's weight from it's GVWR to find out what weight of TT it can handle. Actual payload capacity can be a lot less than what's on the sticker sometimes, especially if you've added non-factory options. Fully loaded means with all passengers, pets and "stuff" you'd have loaded into the truck for a camping trip. Added passengers, pets, stuff, etc. can typically add something like 400-1,000 lbs to a truck.

Then there is tongue weight... Tongue weight is typically around 12 to 13 percent of the actual weight of a TT. Both of those TTs will have a tongue weight around 900 - l,000 lbs. Then add to that the weight of the passengers, pets, and "stuff" - say it was 1,000 lbs. Then allow 100 lbs for a weight distributing hitch (WDH). Now your total payload added to the truck is 2,100 lbs!! That is definitely 3/4 ton territory.

More on weight... This is for the more experienced (screwed) TT owner or those wanting to be more cautious. Axles have a max. weight rating on them. They have a sticker with info. that will tell you. Tires also have a max. load rating and is indicated on the sidewall. To get the actual weight sitting on the axles, take the estimated tongue weight and subtract that from the GVWR and for both those TTs will be about 6600 lbs. If they have 3500 lb axles, they are loaded to near capacity and will put you at risk for problems like bent axles. If those TTs have 15" load range C tires (LRC) they will have a total max. load rating of 7280 lbs. That leaves 10% reverve load capacity on the tires which the absolute min. you should have. More like 20% is better so you won't end up with premature failure or blowout. If available as an option, order load range load range D tires which would put you at 10,120 lbs total load capacity.

If your going to be using ST tires, you need to learn how to treat them as they need to be treated differently than passenger car ("P" rated) or light truck ("LT" rated) tires. Stay below 65 mph, never tow under-inflated and ensure they are not overloaded (slides can cause that) otherwise you can/will end up with a blowout.

Then there is the whole subject of WDHs and what to choose and how to set one up to minimize sway and optimize handling. Get it wrong and you could end up with a disaster.

3/4 ton truck fits the same parking space and only costs a few hundred more so why buy a 1/2 ton truck? Never understood this plan. Buy the most truck you can afford now so in 3 years when you want a heavier trailer or a nice boat you do not have to buy another truck.

summitpower wrote:
So not trying to sound stupid but, my truck will haul 7180, I weigh 220 and wife is 115 all 3 kids combined are 100, I wouldn't travel with water tanks full, and if we take dogs we would take 2 vehicles...also I didn't plan on going to 3/4 ton next year...just was going to get different ram with a V8

You would be good with a 1/2 ton with your trailer with V-8 and the right gearing.

Walaby wrote:
Desert Captain. If you read my response completely, you would see that I did not say use dry weight. No one buys a trailer, then weighs it, and says,dang, Im overweight.. or cool.. Im good. But, using dry weight, and adding 1000lbs to that weight, and taking 13 percent as an estimate to see if the truck/trailer combo is even doable works. Or, you can also take the GVW of the trailer, and then, take 13 percent or 15 percent of that, and determine tongue weight.

Having said that, with a payload of 1650, with 2 adults, 3 kids, 2 dogs, you aren't going to have much payload left for much of a trailer. I seriously doubt the trailers you're looking at will work.

Mike

What you said is:

"Secondly, while dry weight is not indicative of real world application, if used properly, you can use it to help."

That statement is false and will only get the OP into trouble. There is no standard in the industry for computation of "Dry" weights. Some manufacturers include options {awnings, levelers, batteries, LP thanks etc.}, and some do not. When you see a dry weight listed you never know what it really means. This is why dry weights are beyond useless.

Your suggestion to just add 1,000# is purely arbitrary and like a dry weight is worthless. What folks actually load varies widely but 1,500# would not be an unusual load with many going far higher. A quick review of the trailers he is considering show very little OCCC and that is another problem just waiting to bite him in the rear as that is a dead give away that the trailer is very "lightly" constructed. My 22' Fleetwood Pioneer Spirit {a middle of the market model}, had well over 2,000# of OCCC. The Op is going for 30+ footers with a family and only has a little over 1,200# to work with. :h


I agree that you want 13% of the actual, loaded, trailers weight on the tongue. Until you load a trailer as it will ultimately be used and go to a scale you will have no clue what that weight is. This is why dry weights are not only useless but often dangerous as well when people use them having made false assumptions about the load they are actually dealing with.

What the OP refuses to acknowledge is that the weights he was quoted are "Dry weights" and his truck will never be able to tow 7,180# and stay within its limits. This is a classic example of just how dangerous/useless dry weights can be.

As noted before.... opinions and YMMV.

:C

Also we had planned to stay in michigan on any travels until truck was upgraded, never planned on going thru mountains worth this truck

Bamaman1 wrote:


If you're going to purchase a travel trailer, make sure it's not aluminum sided. They all have leaking problems at one time or another--usually in the corners. I rebuilt my old travel trailer's interior 2x due to leaks.

This could be one of the stupidest comments ever on here