New AF - a few winter questions.
Hello all, I am rather new to RVing but long time backpacker and outdoorsman. I chose to go with an Arctic Fox 990 after much research and scouring these boards for a long time. I camp year round...
Forum Discussion
Like you, my life was/is filled with backpacking as recreation and one of those few that was paid to backpack for a living. I have spent many of these backpacking adventures in the Rockies, Sierras and the Adirondacks and bring that thinking with my TC life. I still follow the rule; “If I include something in my pack (TC) it must have at least two uses to be included.” Earlier in my career I worked as a National Park Backcountry Ranger and now find myself working as a National Park Ranger, in your home state, again. With that comes the way I approach my adventures in my TC.
There are a lot of things I love about the Artic Fox TCs and one of these is the capabilities of heated tanks. Lance Campers have these on their newer Truck Campers but not on the earlier models. But, you will then need to be plugged into shore power, or use a generator for them to work. For me, I have gone more than 7 years without ever plugging into shore power. I switched to Solar (1,860 watts). If you are going to be a 4 Season camper, heated tank capability would be a MUST on my Must Have list.
When I first envisioned my project (2004) and then put it together (2008), Propane capacity was one of my important 5 factors. While my solution might not be your solution, a large propane tank, an auxiliary tank mounted on your truck could be. There are many propane tanks in the league of Tiger Class C and other Class B RVs available. These would be easy to connect to your existing TC propane bay. This would be good topic for a separate thread. But with my choice I operate with 3 to 4 months of continuous propane use in my daily life. This recent summer I was able to extend this to 5 months. In doing so I reduced my trips and the fact one would not need to locate a fill station, while traveling. With my TC high off the ground, as it has #30 twin tanks, which is a lot of dispensing of hauling, removing and installing tanks every couple of weeks. Something you might want to consider if you are going to be using your TC for very long extended trips (Long Tripping) and or full timing.
One of the many tips (many from the people here 2004 to 2008) I received when I first started my Full-Time life (3,200+ consecutive nights and still counting) in my Lance 1191 was using remote thermometers. While I could tell you places, like a Valve Compartment, to install these inexpensive thermometers, would be better served by just monitoring the weak spots you find in your camper as you go along. Such as the vent in the basement you have stated before.
Speaking of finding weak spots, one of the things I did before venturing out on my Full Time Adventure is that I did a lot of dry runs. Not just living in the camper, but going out and trying it out for multiple days in all types of weather conditions. I went for very hot periods, dusty and windy periods, rainy/tornado (ask Gointhisaway)/hail periods and the most learned process, cold/subzero weather periods. Some of the things I learned was in a slide camper was to pull it in during dusty and cold periods. As this will allow less dust infiltration and cold infiltration. The best seal around a slide, I have found in a Truck Camper, is found on a Artic Fox. So if you are getting one with a slide, Kudos. Also be aware of the issue of conflicts with a slide. For Stealth Camping (camping in cities or locations you don’t want to be identified you are in your camper) check this article on this subject; Stealth Camping in a Truck Camper Article Clicky
If you are going to go someplace and then back, why even risk running with water in your pipes, shower and tanks. Just winterize and go waterless. That is until you know for sure of your cold weather experience. Run test cruises before going out on the real cold weather check. That is what the navy does to test out new ships, shake down cruises. One of the best pieces of advice I got, before beginning my adventure over 8 years ago, from btggraphix, was do trial runs with increasing durations.
Just pick up some Blue Water 6 gal. Jugs, from Wal-Mart. Or the collapsible type could fill all your water needs for a short trip, without ever filling up your water system.
Daytime temperature is an important factor when nighttime temperatures drop. If it is going to warm up, during the day, above freezing, you are pretty much good. It is the day after day temperatures below 20°F that is going to impact your water systems and your ability to stay warm. Keeping your furnace temperatures at a higher temperature will keep the frozen pipe damage away, forcing warm air into the places where air ducts have been placed, if your manufacturer prepared it properly, will aid in this protection.
Getting my LANCE 1191 down into the 4°F threshold every night does not bother me, as long as I prepare for the night. (During some of my September locations, for over 5 weeks, I never had a nights that were above 21°F and down to lows of 4°F) I turn my thermostat up to 68°F or so, open every faucet (Kitchen, Bathroom sinks, Shower) and hang the shower nozzle down so it further drains (or in some cases remove the nozzle and set it in the kitchen, open cabinet doors and leave bathroom door open. I also push in the valve of the city fill connection, to relieve pressure there and stuff a towel down in the shore power access port (or as I have, put an Oatey 3” (P/N 33402) Waste Pipe Gripper (Home Depot/Lowes) in the port) Lance had an open tooth ringed opening that over a few years use in cold weather had the teeth break off. So I replaced it with the Oatey Plug) I also put a cap on my outside drain pipe. I also have routed my shore power cord through the wall of the Shore Power Cabinet, but that is another story.
The two things I pay attention to, since they both have frozen, my shower head nozzle and waste gates/Valves. I have a wireless thermometer out in the waste gate valve box, to help monitor this area (Another great suggestion from btggraphix) and adjust my furnace temps accordingly.
One more thing. Your batteries will fail before your water system gets frozen; you need to start a plan in how you manage your batteries too. Without the batteries, you need to have a plan on how you are going to start your generator, to then charge up your batteries. Kind of a; “Chicken or the egg” thing. So, it really comes down to your need to think beyond just freezing your pipes. Hopefully you have a 2 battery bay too. I moved mine into the occupied area (AGM) due to the 60% loss of capacity of battery amp availability as the core/outside air temperatures begin falling below 55?F. This is why someone doing 4 season camping, and doing it successfully, will need to up their battery capacity and solar. Well, if you are like me you still want to have the same/or close to the same lifestyle you have the remaining 3 seasons of the year.
Buzzcut1 has some great tips and I often suggest TC owners to look towards him for his tips. While I agree with 90+% of his suggestions, some just don’t work for me. One, is I don’t turn my thermostat down over night, as he suggests to 55?F, due to the Thermos Bottle factor I mentioned earlier. I am not camping for a weekend or a 4 or 5 day weekend. I love the fact that there can be thermo barriers and encourage others to follow his advice, but I don’t. The reason is I don’t want to have the cave like dark appearance of having the window/door covered so as I don’t have daylight and night sky views from inside. This factor is important to many people’s mental health for long time living in a TC in the winter season, especially mine. Also, what to do with all of these neat winter cold defeating devices. Like a turtle, I carry everything on my back, 12 months of the year. I just exercise the cost of using and disposing some items to whether I wish to carry them until the next season. Having an abundance of Propane, and multiple heat providing devices, I just carry on without them. Just my personal choice.
I love, love my Wave 6 heater. The reason I have the larger Wave 6 is because of the larger slide type TC I have and the fact I remain in cold weather climbs for 30+ days at a time. One season I had my Wave 6 heater on, nonstop, for more than 60 days. More information on Wave heaters can be found in the links below. But be sure to note the limitations I have noted about them, such as their struggle in keeping up with outside temperatures approaching 20?F and below. That is when a supplemental heating source, electric, forced air furnace, is an important supplement to your Wave Heater UMHO. Also, a plan to deal with long time exposure to condensation is an important consideration and thread all of it’s own.
While you are winterizing and following buzzcut1 tips, in winterizing compartments take a Mechanic’s Trouble Light and stick it into compartments (shower), kitchen and water heater cabinets during the nighttime and step outside to look for light leakage. You might shocked as I was in the small little gaps around the shower basin, Gate/Valve compartment, Water Heater areas. When you find these gaps, take action as they will suck a lot of the heat out of your camper. If you have a slide, don’t worry about cracking a vent to give air movement as there will be plenty of opportunity for this use.
Again, keep your slides in during cold and dusty windy periods. Doing this will allow you to maintain your heated area easier. Windy locations, like Tehachapi Pass, will force open leakage locations too, i.e., vents, fume hoods and slides.
Hopefully some of the things I shared will help with your planning and execution. Coming here, to this forum, and starting threads and asking questions will help you save time and money and will keep us focused in how we answer your questions. Soon you will learn which person/poster best matches your use and needs, as well as who’s advice has the most credibility. Sounds like you are going to have many adventures ahead and planning is a great way of getting there. Welcome to the forum, PointTaken.
b
Cold Weather Travel
Wave 3 Heater Discussion
Wave Heater Discussion
Portable Heater Discussion
Direct Link to Wave Heater Discussion
Btggraphix cold weather project upgrades
***Edit ~ Updating the number of years I have been Full-Timing, in a TC, to 8 years
There are a lot of things I love about the Artic Fox TCs and one of these is the capabilities of heated tanks. Lance Campers have these on their newer Truck Campers but not on the earlier models. But, you will then need to be plugged into shore power, or use a generator for them to work. For me, I have gone more than 7 years without ever plugging into shore power. I switched to Solar (1,860 watts). If you are going to be a 4 Season camper, heated tank capability would be a MUST on my Must Have list.
When I first envisioned my project (2004) and then put it together (2008), Propane capacity was one of my important 5 factors. While my solution might not be your solution, a large propane tank, an auxiliary tank mounted on your truck could be. There are many propane tanks in the league of Tiger Class C and other Class B RVs available. These would be easy to connect to your existing TC propane bay. This would be good topic for a separate thread. But with my choice I operate with 3 to 4 months of continuous propane use in my daily life. This recent summer I was able to extend this to 5 months. In doing so I reduced my trips and the fact one would not need to locate a fill station, while traveling. With my TC high off the ground, as it has #30 twin tanks, which is a lot of dispensing of hauling, removing and installing tanks every couple of weeks. Something you might want to consider if you are going to be using your TC for very long extended trips (Long Tripping) and or full timing.
One of the many tips (many from the people here 2004 to 2008) I received when I first started my Full-Time life (3,200+ consecutive nights and still counting) in my Lance 1191 was using remote thermometers. While I could tell you places, like a Valve Compartment, to install these inexpensive thermometers, would be better served by just monitoring the weak spots you find in your camper as you go along. Such as the vent in the basement you have stated before.
Speaking of finding weak spots, one of the things I did before venturing out on my Full Time Adventure is that I did a lot of dry runs. Not just living in the camper, but going out and trying it out for multiple days in all types of weather conditions. I went for very hot periods, dusty and windy periods, rainy/tornado (ask Gointhisaway)/hail periods and the most learned process, cold/subzero weather periods. Some of the things I learned was in a slide camper was to pull it in during dusty and cold periods. As this will allow less dust infiltration and cold infiltration. The best seal around a slide, I have found in a Truck Camper, is found on a Artic Fox. So if you are getting one with a slide, Kudos. Also be aware of the issue of conflicts with a slide. For Stealth Camping (camping in cities or locations you don’t want to be identified you are in your camper) check this article on this subject; Stealth Camping in a Truck Camper Article Clicky
If you are going to go someplace and then back, why even risk running with water in your pipes, shower and tanks. Just winterize and go waterless. That is until you know for sure of your cold weather experience. Run test cruises before going out on the real cold weather check. That is what the navy does to test out new ships, shake down cruises. One of the best pieces of advice I got, before beginning my adventure over 8 years ago, from btggraphix, was do trial runs with increasing durations.
Just pick up some Blue Water 6 gal. Jugs, from Wal-Mart. Or the collapsible type could fill all your water needs for a short trip, without ever filling up your water system.
Daytime temperature is an important factor when nighttime temperatures drop. If it is going to warm up, during the day, above freezing, you are pretty much good. It is the day after day temperatures below 20°F that is going to impact your water systems and your ability to stay warm. Keeping your furnace temperatures at a higher temperature will keep the frozen pipe damage away, forcing warm air into the places where air ducts have been placed, if your manufacturer prepared it properly, will aid in this protection.
Getting my LANCE 1191 down into the 4°F threshold every night does not bother me, as long as I prepare for the night. (During some of my September locations, for over 5 weeks, I never had a nights that were above 21°F and down to lows of 4°F) I turn my thermostat up to 68°F or so, open every faucet (Kitchen, Bathroom sinks, Shower) and hang the shower nozzle down so it further drains (or in some cases remove the nozzle and set it in the kitchen, open cabinet doors and leave bathroom door open. I also push in the valve of the city fill connection, to relieve pressure there and stuff a towel down in the shore power access port (or as I have, put an Oatey 3” (P/N 33402) Waste Pipe Gripper (Home Depot/Lowes) in the port) Lance had an open tooth ringed opening that over a few years use in cold weather had the teeth break off. So I replaced it with the Oatey Plug) I also put a cap on my outside drain pipe. I also have routed my shore power cord through the wall of the Shore Power Cabinet, but that is another story.
The two things I pay attention to, since they both have frozen, my shower head nozzle and waste gates/Valves. I have a wireless thermometer out in the waste gate valve box, to help monitor this area (Another great suggestion from btggraphix) and adjust my furnace temps accordingly.
One more thing. Your batteries will fail before your water system gets frozen; you need to start a plan in how you manage your batteries too. Without the batteries, you need to have a plan on how you are going to start your generator, to then charge up your batteries. Kind of a; “Chicken or the egg” thing. So, it really comes down to your need to think beyond just freezing your pipes. Hopefully you have a 2 battery bay too. I moved mine into the occupied area (AGM) due to the 60% loss of capacity of battery amp availability as the core/outside air temperatures begin falling below 55?F. This is why someone doing 4 season camping, and doing it successfully, will need to up their battery capacity and solar. Well, if you are like me you still want to have the same/or close to the same lifestyle you have the remaining 3 seasons of the year.
Buzzcut1 has some great tips and I often suggest TC owners to look towards him for his tips. While I agree with 90+% of his suggestions, some just don’t work for me. One, is I don’t turn my thermostat down over night, as he suggests to 55?F, due to the Thermos Bottle factor I mentioned earlier. I am not camping for a weekend or a 4 or 5 day weekend. I love the fact that there can be thermo barriers and encourage others to follow his advice, but I don’t. The reason is I don’t want to have the cave like dark appearance of having the window/door covered so as I don’t have daylight and night sky views from inside. This factor is important to many people’s mental health for long time living in a TC in the winter season, especially mine. Also, what to do with all of these neat winter cold defeating devices. Like a turtle, I carry everything on my back, 12 months of the year. I just exercise the cost of using and disposing some items to whether I wish to carry them until the next season. Having an abundance of Propane, and multiple heat providing devices, I just carry on without them. Just my personal choice.
I love, love my Wave 6 heater. The reason I have the larger Wave 6 is because of the larger slide type TC I have and the fact I remain in cold weather climbs for 30+ days at a time. One season I had my Wave 6 heater on, nonstop, for more than 60 days. More information on Wave heaters can be found in the links below. But be sure to note the limitations I have noted about them, such as their struggle in keeping up with outside temperatures approaching 20?F and below. That is when a supplemental heating source, electric, forced air furnace, is an important supplement to your Wave Heater UMHO. Also, a plan to deal with long time exposure to condensation is an important consideration and thread all of it’s own.
While you are winterizing and following buzzcut1 tips, in winterizing compartments take a Mechanic’s Trouble Light and stick it into compartments (shower), kitchen and water heater cabinets during the nighttime and step outside to look for light leakage. You might shocked as I was in the small little gaps around the shower basin, Gate/Valve compartment, Water Heater areas. When you find these gaps, take action as they will suck a lot of the heat out of your camper. If you have a slide, don’t worry about cracking a vent to give air movement as there will be plenty of opportunity for this use.
Again, keep your slides in during cold and dusty windy periods. Doing this will allow you to maintain your heated area easier. Windy locations, like Tehachapi Pass, will force open leakage locations too, i.e., vents, fume hoods and slides.
Hopefully some of the things I shared will help with your planning and execution. Coming here, to this forum, and starting threads and asking questions will help you save time and money and will keep us focused in how we answer your questions. Soon you will learn which person/poster best matches your use and needs, as well as who’s advice has the most credibility. Sounds like you are going to have many adventures ahead and planning is a great way of getting there. Welcome to the forum, PointTaken.
b
Cold Weather Travel
Wave 3 Heater Discussion
Wave Heater Discussion
Portable Heater Discussion
Direct Link to Wave Heater Discussion
Btggraphix cold weather project upgrades
***Edit ~ Updating the number of years I have been Full-Timing, in a TC, to 8 years
