After many years in a tent, the wife and I are looking to upgrade to hybrid. Have been looking at Kodiak Express 172E, Jayco 16XRB, and Starcraft Launch 16RB.We'd love to get any feedback on these (or other Hybrids we should be looking at).

You are stepping a natural progression in your camping style that many of us have been through, going from tent to Pop-up / or / hybrid, to travel trailer / or / fifth wheel, to motor home.For many of us, it was initially hard leaving the "tent" feeling, so a pop-up or hybrid was a good alternative. They both afford the luxury of having a solid bed, getting off the ground, and still be surrounded by a "tent".However ... depending upon where you live, how you camp, and WHEN you like to camp, pop-up's and hybrids may NOT be all that good. Pop-up's and Hybrids still have tenting (soft) material that can (and is) a real pain to work with ... The biggest "pain" is having to close up the camper when the ends are wet. They can be wet from rain, or wet from dew. It doesn't matter, water is still water. And closing up a camper that has water is a "mold" just waiting to happen. So, that often means waiting for the sun to get up and hot enough to dry everything off before packing up, or having the ability to open the camper up once home so it can dry out. I think those who are most happy with both Pop-up's and Hybrids are those who can open them up at home and leave them open. If you cannot do this at home, because of where you live (like in a home-owners-association), or in a city zoned No RV's! Then you absolutely do not want a hybrid! You are destined to get caught in the rain sometime.Another thing to consider about hybrids. If you plan on early Spring, late Fall, or even winter camp, you're going to find those tent ends VERY cold, and you'll be burning through a lot of propane and / or electricity for space heaters to just keep warm. You will loose a lot of heat (and air conditioning) through those soft sides. On the other hand ... there are those who seem to really enjoy their hybrids. The biggest factor is they can have a shorter box to tow, and when opened up, creates more space. However, if you need to just park for an over night, while traveling, you'll have to unhook the tow vehicle, move it, then lower the tent ends. But then, you may never stop for just an over night. Still.... something to consider? You don't know how your camping style will change a year from now once you've started experiencing it.I may sound like doom-and-gloom, but coming from experience, may I suggest you skip right over the hybrid and go directly to a conventional travel trailer, for all the reasons I stated above. Your life will be much more simple!

Dutchman speaks with much camping wisdom.

You don't have to unhook if you choose not to. You can always "turtle" and then leave the next morning without disconnecting. Also, you can buy pop-up gizmo's to reduce both temperatures and light. As far as weather one or two electric heaters will keep the rig nice and warm. We have camped in all weather, including snow, but be prepared to keep snow limited on the tent ends. As far as brands, everyone has the picks. The best thing to do is find one that will fit your needs, both now and a few years ahead. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

We've owned 3 Jayco trailers we purchased new. A '93 1208 pop-up, an '03 Kiwi 17a hybrid, and our current X20E hybrid. All have been solid trailers. No major issues. The only issues were little things like misaligned door locks, a strip or door molding not glued down all the way, loose screws on the microwave bracket, stuff like that. What's going to be most important for you is floor plan and your dealer. As said above a hybrid is not for everyone, but also speaking from experience, having owned 2 hybrids over the past 13 years and still own, we can't say we're ready to be cooped up in a box just yet. We've been sleeping under some sort of tenting since 1985. We're in our middle 50s. You can't compare pop-ups to hybrids. Different animals, it's an apples to oranges comparison. We had a pop-up for 10 years before buying our first hybrid in '03. Night and day difference. We don't miss the work and hassle of a pop-up at all. Closing up wet is big problem with pop-ups, in fact we got mold in ours even after I was pretty sure it was dried out. Never completely got rid of the stains. Speaking of packing wet, our hybrids and others brands I've seen are vinyl covered canvas. They don't/can't get soaked. If they are wet when packing, they get dried with a towel. If it's raining, they get opened at home and toweled off. Not once have we gotten mold or mildew. If you live in HOA or in a no-RV zoned city, you've got far more issues than just drying the ends off. I'm honestly not sure we would have ever bought any trailer if I would have had to store somewhere else. The cost alone would have made me question it. Heating/cooling has never been an issue. Even in 28 degree weather, or in 100 degree heat in the NV desert. My wife now likes a heating blanket to supplement the heat, but it's due to a medical condition. Some folks use PUGs to cover the bunk ends but I personally think that would be little gain for a lot of extra work. Those that use them love them. We've done many over nighters without disconnecting. If our daughter was traveling with us I simply dropped the back bed and we slept on the dinette. Otherwise we didn't open anything and slept on the dinette.

Whether or not you can open your hybrid while hitched has to do with the length of the bed when open and the length of your hitch. We have a Jayco 17Z. We have a weight distribution hitch which lengthened the truck portion of the hitch by about a foot and we can open the front bunk while hitched. We even have just barely enough room to open the tail gate on the truck with the bunk open. Having said that, I understand that just adding a hitch extension is mondo dangerous so you don't want to do that.When we're overnighting in a rest area or truck stop we stay hitched and open only the front bunk. When overnighting in campgrounds we stay hitched but open both bunks. When overnighting by myself I often just sleep on the couch, but I'm short and fit on the junior bed.

Newbie -- Considering Hybrid Purchase | Good Sam Community

DonNH
Explorer
Nov 12, 2016
We have a Starcraft 15FD (1 bunk). Like you, it is just the two of us and a dog.
This has worked well for us. The first year we pulled it with a V6 RAV4. Had enough power, but though it was within the tow rating it didn' feel like the Rav was structurally up to the task for the long run. Now pull with the Tacoma.
If we had a larger tow vehicle I would probably prefer a non-hybrid with a more accessible bed (have to crawl over the wife to get in/out whether we're in the tent or turtled and using the dinette.)
Still like having a small trailer for ease of positioning and feeling like we're really camping. Often find that we're arriving at sites when the weather is wet, which means we stay turtled until it gets better. Have PUGS which help with keeping it warmer or cooler and should help with longevity of the tent.
bikendan
Explorer
Nov 09, 2016
ricks99 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the comments. We've narrowed it down to three models:
- Kodiak 172E
- Startcraft Launch 16RB
- KZ Sportsmen Classic 18RBT

For us, the positives of having 2 queen beds without sacrificing any floorspace and being able to still have the "camping experience" of canvas outweigh any of the perceived negatives y'all have mentioned.

Once we make a decision, I'll be sure to post and let everyone know.

Thanks again!

Starcraft has the best rep and i think they have a 2 year warranty, vs the 1 year warranty of the other two.
ricks99
Explorer
Nov 09, 2016
Thanks everyone for the comments. We've narrowed it down to three models:
- Kodiak 172E
- Startcraft Launch 16RB
- KZ Sportsmen Classic 18RBT

For us, the positives of having 2 queen beds without sacrificing any floorspace and being able to still have the "camping experience" of canvas outweigh any of the perceived negatives y'all have mentioned.

Once we make a decision, I'll be sure to post and let everyone know.

Thanks again!
aftermath
Explorer III
Nov 09, 2016
Listen to what Dutchman said. It was a very honest summary.

I went from tent, to popup, to hybrid and now finally a TT. We started in the tent with two young children but the rain and confining space took us to our popup. We camped in this for 17 years and loved the extra space and the ability to ride out the storms. Once the girls left we wanted a fridge and a bathroom so we got a 21ft Starcraft hybrid. Man, there was a lot of space inside. We were in our late 50s by now and were looking into traveling after retirement. We tried the travel thing with the hybrid and it was not easy. So, we moved up (?) again to a trailer.

I said all of this just to let you know that you should focus on how you camp, when you camp, where you camp and what your camping plans are going to be. I loved our hybrid but here are some things I found to be true. You HAVE to dry it out. Ours had vinyl/rubber tops on the bed ends but the sides were not. Putting it away wet will cause big issues. I live on the dry eastern side of Washington so it was not hard to manage this because we almost always camped during the summer months.

Pulling into camp and setting up a hybrid is not difficult but it does take some time. We made a 5 day trip and had to set up and tear down every day. It got a little old. Also, while on the road, accessing the trailer was not easy. Now we can just park and have full use of the trailer and it doesn't matter if it is raining. This was never an issue for us when we were young. It is now.
SoundGuy
Explorer
Nov 08, 2016
ricks99 wrote:
It is just me and my wife (and a dog), so I don't really think we need/want anything bigger than 15-18' range. Our TV is a Dodge Ram 1500, so weight isn't really the deciding factor -- I simply don't think we need a 25+ TT

Having made the mistake of going from a popup to a hybrid myself before moving on to a travel trailer I'd suggest there's only one good reason for going with a hybrid and therefore having to put up with all the negatives such a trailer involves - you want the conveniences of a travel trailer but love, love, love sleeping under tenting. If that's not the case - forget it and go straight to a travel trailer. There are plenty of shorter TTs, my own Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS being an example - offers pretty well everything any adult couple could need in an easy to tow camper that can be parked on pretty well any campsite. The box itself is 18' 6", overall length coupler to bumper is 22' 6" ... and current models feature a full length queen bed, not a short RV queen. Pics are in my gallery below. :)
PAThwacker
Explorer
Nov 03, 2016
Single axle pups get blown around on highway are a pleasure to handle with a 7600lb suburban. I remember getting blown all over the road with a 5800lb trailblazer. Getting jostled with full height trailer and sub no issues. Man handle tt on snow Controlled sliding of trailer 1st gear crawling. Good times!
Dernhelm
Explorer
Nov 02, 2016
ricks99 wrote:

It is just me and my wife (and a dog), so I don't really think we need/want anything bigger than 15-18' range.

We love the fact that the beds in the hybrid don't eat up any floorspace.

If we leave everything folded up and "turtle" there shouldn't be an issue with heating the TT in the winter, right?

We have the 17Z which is about 18' and with the 2 queen size beds it's an excellent size for DH, me and 2 big dogs. Fits in all the state parks, easy to back.

No beds in the floorspace is EXACTLY why we bought a hybrid. No other trailer gives you 2 queen size beds in only 18'.

We usually heat the trailer with a Black & Decker heater that measures about 12 x 9" and pulls 1500W. We generally make sure we have electricity when it's going to be cold. That little heater keeps us plenty warm when we're turtled - in fact we have to turn it down. Even in snow, when not turtled it does an excellent job keeping us warm. We prefer NOT to use the propane heater because you do get a ton of condensation in the bunk ends. If we have to use the propane heater I prefer to be turtled.

Never had a problem having only one axle and it's cheaper on toll roads. We also get better mileage because of the lighter weight.
drenjoey
Explorer
Nov 02, 2016
Oasisbob wrote:
3. easily broken into though we have yet to have this happen.

Any camper is easy to break in, and almost all of them have the same keys for exterior compartments!
Oasisbob
Explorer
Nov 01, 2016
We have had a love/hate hybrid relationship for nearly 14 years. We needed four beds and room that could be towed with our mini van. Our HTT tips scales at 3,490 loaded with full tank and ready to camp. Three negatives. 1. absolutely has to be dried out when you get home. 2. Noisey neighbors? Not much you can do about it. 3. easily broken into though we have yet to have this happen. 3 positives. 1. best space to weight ratio. 2. Nice to sleep out like a tent but with a trailer attached. 3. Lots of room
bikendan
Explorer
Nov 01, 2016
ricks99 wrote:
Regarding axles -- I see that double alxe would increase the weight capacity of the TT, but other than that is there a difference (e.g., in towing stability?)

We love the fact that the beds in the hybrid don't eat up any floorspace. If we leave everything folded up and "turtle" there shouldn't be an issue with heating the TT in the winter, right?

YES, big difference in towing stability and ease of backing up, between tandem axles and single axles. WAY better with tandem axles.

just cause you can turtle, other areas have to be addressed for winter camping.
water lines, holding tanks, drain pipes, outside shower are all things that may need to be winterized, depending on how cold it gets where you're camping. then you have to deal with water supply and tank dumping.