So much debate about the artificially low payload on the Ram 2500 diesels. That the low payload is only due to the 10,000 lb. GVWR. That the Ram 2500 diesel shares the same frame and drivetrain (differential, wheel bearings, etc.) as the Ram 3500 diesel (~11,700 lb. GVWR) which has approx. 1,700 lbs. more payload. The only difference between the two truck appears to be the rear suspension (Ram 2500's coil vs. the Ram 3500's leaf).These numbers and differences aside, has anyone actually measured the total AVAILABLE suspension travel, empty vs. loaded to maximum payload, on these two trucks? IMO, these simple measurements would settle this whole debate once and for all.For example, let's say, hypothetically, the Ram 2500 diesel has 5" of available rear suspension travel empty and only 2" remaining when loaded to maximum payload (~2200 lbs.). Again, hypothetically, let's say the Ram 3500 diesel has the same 5"/2" difference when loaded to its maximum payload of ~4000 lbs. If this was the case, then clearly there's more at play then some artificial GVWR.But, then again, if the Ram 2500 diesel was loaded to the Ram 3500's maximum payload of 4000 lbs. (using the above scenario) and still had 2" of remaining suspension travel then it would seem the 10,000 lb. GVWR, could very well be "artificial".Thoughts?

My first thought/question - Is suspension travel linear? Meaning just because each sags a given amount is it an indication of capability? I'm asking honestly as I don't know the answer.You might do some searching for member ib516 - He posted A LOT of videos of his 2500 Hemi and a friends 3500 with the same load being set in the bed (the pin of a HUGE 5th wheel). I seem to remember him measuring the sag on each but can't remember the outcome. He's since sold his truck but still stops by here every now and then so maybe he'll chime in.

The 2500 rides an inch higher at the receiver unloaded so it stands to reason it has an extra inch of travel. I don't know that that as any bearing on the payload rating, though. Bottom line on payload is the coils are a little softer than the leafs so at some point you'll get a bit more sag on them. ib516 posted some side by sides of his 2500 and a 3500 hooked to a very large fifth wheel and there was s little more squat on the coils but not a drastic difference. Of course Timbrens or airbags would eliminate the difference. I don't think there's any debate that the diesel payload rating is limited due to the 10k GVWR. It is. The 6.4 payload rating is about 1000 lbs higher and it has an identical rear suspension, and the only difference is the curb weight (the difference is almost entirely on the front axle).

I believe this is ib516, but using a different name on another forum. The 2500 dropped 2.7" while the 3500 dropped 2" loaded with the same 14,000 trailer with a hitch weight somewhere between 2,700-3,000 lbs.Ram 2500 Hemi vs 3500 SRW CumminsWhile the 2500 has a Hemi in this scenario, it has the same rear suspension as the diesel 2500. As mentioned, the only weight difference between the gas 2500 and the diesel 2500 is engine weight that is mostly over the front axle which so happens that the diesel 2500 has the same front suspension as the 3500 diesel. Then you can look at axle weight ratings.My Ram 2500 dieselFront GAWR- 6,000 lbsRear GAWR- 6,500 lbsRam 3500 dieselFront GAWR- 6,000 lbsRear GAWR- 7,000 lbsEverything on the trucks are the same besides the rear suspension which is calculated into the GAWR. Only a 500 lbs difference between the two in axle ratings yet there is a 1,700 lbs difference in payload. It doesn't take an engineering degree to see that the limiting factor is the max GVWR of 10,000 lbs in the class 2b that the 2500 is in.

IdaD, ShinerBock, see your point and appreciate the numbers.Let me simplify my point. How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 2500 diesel with a payload rating of 2,200 lbs? How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 3500 diesel which has payload rating of 4,000 lbs?If the "numbers" look good but the axle is riding on the frame, do you keep on driving?

This has long been discussed. My F250 was identical to a F350 except for shorter axle blocks and the badging. The Class 2b trucks are limited by the 10k lb GVWR and typically close or identical to the Class 3.The Ram 2500 cannot be optioned with the Aisin verses the 3500, but this is a marketing decision rather than technical.GM 2500 trucks were offered in short bed configurations that were not available in the 3500, yet the rest of the truck is identical.

Payload: Ram 2500 Diesel vs. Ram 3500 Diesel | Good Sam Community

agesilaus
Explorer III
Feb 14, 2016
The Ford F350 has a larger diameter rear axle and drive shaft. It has more splines 37 vs 35. Springs are stronger on the 350.
Bedlam
Moderator
Feb 14, 2016
This has long been discussed. My F250 was identical to a F350 except for shorter axle blocks and the badging. The Class 2b trucks are limited by the 10k lb GVWR and typically close or identical to the Class 3.

The Ram 2500 cannot be optioned with the Aisin verses the 3500, but this is a marketing decision rather than technical.

GM 2500 trucks were offered in short bed configurations that were not available in the 3500, yet the rest of the truck is identical.
otrfun
Explorer II
Feb 14, 2016
IdaD, ShinerBock, see your point and appreciate the numbers.

Let me simplify my point.

How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 2500 diesel with a payload rating of 2,200 lbs?

How close is the axle to the frame (or rubber axle stop) when you load 4,000 lbs. of payload in a Ram 3500 diesel which has payload rating of 4,000 lbs?

If the "numbers" look good but the axle is riding on the frame, do you keep on driving?
ShinerBock
Explorer
Feb 14, 2016
I believe this is ib516, but using a different name on another forum. The 2500 dropped 2.7" while the 3500 dropped 2" loaded with the same 14,000 trailer with a hitch weight somewhere between 2,700-3,000 lbs.

Ram 2500 Hemi vs 3500 SRW Cummins

While the 2500 has a Hemi in this scenario, it has the same rear suspension as the diesel 2500. As mentioned, the only weight difference between the gas 2500 and the diesel 2500 is engine weight that is mostly over the front axle which so happens that the diesel 2500 has the same front suspension as the 3500 diesel.

Then you can look at axle weight ratings.

My Ram 2500 diesel
Front GAWR- 6,000 lbs
Rear GAWR- 6,500 lbs

Ram 3500 diesel
Front GAWR- 6,000 lbs
Rear GAWR- 7,000 lbs

Everything on the trucks are the same besides the rear suspension which is calculated into the GAWR. Only a 500 lbs difference between the two in axle ratings yet there is a 1,700 lbs difference in payload. It doesn't take an engineering degree to see that the limiting factor is the max GVWR of 10,000 lbs in the class 2b that the 2500 is in.
IdaD
Explorer
Feb 14, 2016
The 2500 rides an inch higher at the receiver unloaded so it stands to reason it has an extra inch of travel. I don't know that that as any bearing on the payload rating, though. Bottom line on payload is the coils are a little softer than the leafs so at some point you'll get a bit more sag on them. ib516 posted some side by sides of his 2500 and a 3500 hooked to a very large fifth wheel and there was s little more squat on the coils but not a drastic difference. Of course Timbrens or airbags would eliminate the difference.

I don't think there's any debate that the diesel payload rating is limited due to the 10k GVWR. It is. The 6.4 payload rating is about 1000 lbs higher and it has an identical rear suspension, and the only difference is the curb weight (the difference is almost entirely on the front axle).
mtofell1
Explorer
Feb 14, 2016
My first thought/question - Is suspension travel linear? Meaning just because each sags a given amount is it an indication of capability? I'm asking honestly as I don't know the answer.

You might do some searching for member ib516 - He posted A LOT of videos of his 2500 Hemi and a friends 3500 with the same load being set in the bed (the pin of a HUGE 5th wheel). I seem to remember him measuring the sag on each but can't remember the outcome. He's since sold his truck but still stops by here every now and then so maybe he'll chime in.

Forum Discussion

Payload: Ram 2500 Diesel vs. Ram 3500 Diesel

About Travel Trailer Group

Related Content

Diesel fuel

3/4 ton diesel's and payload / GVWR issues

Diesel Oil.....

Diesel Trucks

Diesel Trucks