Ram 1500 Diesel Towing Capacity?

Here's a CR report a poor guy posted on the cumminsforum and is taking a beating. Including from some members here. :R

Here's his quote: "Consumer Reports just named the Ram 3rd worst of all. Before you try to bash Consumer Reports, first remember, these ratings are based on what owners have to say about the product. I get queried about my vehicles every year by Consumer Reports.
Shame on Ram, but it sure doesn't surprise me."

CR Report

cekkk wrote:
Hey, guys, I have a friend who has a Ph.D. in abstract math. If you like I'll ask him to study these posts and declare a winner.:B

That would be cool. Maybe it's like the Montie Hall puzzle? I for one would like to hear what He has to say. Post it up.

itguy08 wrote:
It has nothing to do with that. Nobody should be weighted on the amount of vehicles they sell. Nobody.

I'm honestly floored that you are missing this. The data is already an average of problems with that car line so weighting an average is pointless.

Yes, the data is showing an average for each nameplate. However, if you want to combine those nameplates from a specific manufacturer to determine an average figure overall, you cannot do so without considering the relative volume of each brand.

Hey, guys, I have a friend who has a Ph.D. in abstract math. If you like I'll ask him to study these posts and declare a winner.:B

It has nothing to do with that. Nobody should be weighted on the amount of vehicles they sell. Nobody.

I'm honestly floored that you are missing this. The data is already an average of problems with that car line so weighting an average is pointless.

itguy08 wrote:

IdaD wrote:


So, because I evidently have too much time on my hands, using 2014 sales numbers the "corporate dependability" figure for Ford/Lincoln is 185.324. That's because there were slightly more than 25 Ford branded vehicles sold for each Lincoln branded vehicle sold. The figure for Ram/Chrysler/Dodge/Fiat/Jeep works out to 179.6207.

Adjusting for volume is pointless as it has no bearing on the actual quality of the vehicles since it is expressed in problems per 100 vehicles. So if I sell 100 vehicles and have 188 problems per 100 that means that in that sample of 100, I will have to fix 188 issues. No matter if that is 1 vehicle with 188 issues and 99 with 0 or any combination inbetween. IOW it's already normalized.

Quality is not related to volume in any way. Look at Toyota. Sells about the same total #'s as Ford with much better quality...

I'm honestly floored that you aren't able to wrap your head around this - the data is not already normalized.

In 2014 there were slightly more than 25 times as many Ford branded vehicles sold as compared to Lincoln branded vehicles. That means the Ford rating of 188 weighs much more heavily than the Lincoln rating of 118 when you compute an average corporate rating. One brand sold well over two million units and the other sold under 100,000 units.

If you'd like to look at Toyota, the same thing applies. Toyota sold a little over 2 million units, Lexus sold a little over 300,000 units, and Scion sold 58,000 units. If you're going to calculate out an overall rating, the Toyota rating is going to matter a lot more than the Scion rating.

This is not complicated at all. Maybe you're struggling with it because you are unwilling to admit that your own data shows that Ford is less dependable than FCA per this JD Power study.

IdaD wrote:


So, because I evidently have too much time on my hands, using 2014 sales numbers the "corporate dependability" figure for Ford/Lincoln is 185.324. That's because there were slightly more than 25 Ford branded vehicles sold for each Lincoln branded vehicle sold. The figure for Ram/Chrysler/Dodge/Fiat/Jeep works out to 179.6207.

Adjusting for volume is pointless as it has no bearing on the actual quality of the vehicles since it is expressed in problems per 100 vehicles. So if I sell 100 vehicles and have 188 problems per 100 that means that in that sample of 100, I will have to fix 188 issues. No matter if that is 1 vehicle with 188 issues and 99 with 0 or any combination inbetween. IOW it's already normalized.

Quality is not related to volume in any way. Look at Toyota. Sells about the same total #'s as Ford with much better quality...

Hay Ittroll I understand your are the athority on the chicken tax? LOL

itguy08 wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Failed statistics in college, huh? Ford probably sells 50 times as many vehicles a year as Lincoln, but you just did a straight average between the two to figure your "corporate" dependability? Ditto Ram vs Fiat. Good grief man, that's a pathetic attempt at "analyzing data."

Thanks for the graphic you posted, though - nice to see Ram up that high on the list.

Moving the goalposts because you don't like the data? The entire world knows a Lincoln is a Ford with more sound deadening. The drivetrain and other bits are the same as a Ford. Similar story with GMC vs Chevrolet. The one interesting thing is to see the "premium" brands like GMC, Lincoln, Lexus, do better than their standard counterparts.

You can see who sold what here:September 2015 Sales

How should we do it? Weighted average? That would also look bad for Chrysler as they sold a lot of those abysmal Jeeps, lots of bad Dodges, and a few mediocre Chryslers and some decent Rams...

So how should one analyst the data? Straight line average seems to be the best to me for all makers....

Please explain how I moved the goalposts.

FWIW, I could care less what looks good or bad for Chrysler or FCA. I don't own a Jeep or a Fiat, I own a Ram and a Honda, and both of them are above average on your graphic and that's a positive thing.

But to answer your question, yes of course you have to weight the numbers to account for the vehicles actually sold. Use your head for a minute. If you sell 25 Fords with 188 problems per 100 vehicles and 1 Lincoln with 118 problems per 100 vehicles, doing a straight 50/50 average of the two numbers is nonsensical.

So, because I evidently have too much time on my hands, using 2014 sales numbers the "corporate dependability" figure for Ford/Lincoln is 185.324. That's because there were slightly more than 25 Ford branded vehicles sold for each Lincoln branded vehicle sold. The figure for Ram/Chrysler/Dodge/Fiat/Jeep works out to 179.6207.

Sorry that didn't work out better for you.

Forget CR, how about real safety issues?

"General Motors accounted for almost 27 million of the recalled vehicles, the automaker said.

According to the automakers, Honda recalled about 8.9 million vehicles last year, Fiat Chrysler recalled about 8.8 million, Toyota recalled about six million and Ford recalled almost 4.9 million."

recalls

Vehicles Sold 2014:
GM - 2.2 mil
Ford - 1.8 mil
Toyota - 1.8 mil
FCA - 1.5 mil
Honda 1.1 mil