Ram 2005 headlight bulbs

trail-explorer wrote:
If there's so-called "scatter" occuring, then they are using HID bulbs in a non HID designated housing.

Gdetrailer wrote:
You can call it what you "like" but when I have a vehicle behind me with the blue tinted bulbs and a have a very sharp bright outline of my seats and head from said blue bulbs that tells me that the "pattern" of said blue bulbs is scattering well out of bounds from where they should be..

Even the folks leaving their high beams on while behind me does not give such a sharp outline..

If folks really want better headlights they need to address the low voltage to the bulbs first..

Manufacturers tend to use 18ga wire and lots of it, in the average vehicle there is easily 20ft if not 30ft of headlight wiring before it gets to the bulb..

Ready made relay kits typically use 14Ga and no more than 15ft of that since they connect directly to the battery..

Pretty much a solid bet that you will easily gain 20% better light by using a relay kit..

trailer-explorer, I would have to really disagree with your "opinion"..

HID bulbs NOT NOT CHANGE COLOR depending on the angle of approaching vehicle like what I have seen, CHEAPO blue tinted bulbs however DO CHANGE COLOR as the angle of approach changes.

You see, most of those blue tinted cheap bulbs only tint the TIP of the bulb.. This creates a hot blue spot with a more yellow surrounding the blue hot spot..

So as a car approaches you, you get a bright blue spot that fades a bit to yellow..

Those bulbs are often not DOT approved and if you look carefully at the packaging they often will state for "off road" or "show" use..

HID has a very distinctive blueish white color that is easy to recognize and that color trait can not be duplicated by tinting incadescent bulb tips blue. It is easy to spot the fake HID wannabe bulbs..

The vehicles I have seen blue tinted bulbs typically are cheap wanna be "racers" with the loud oversized sausage mufflers or the uber over the top high lifted 4x4 pickups..

Blue bulbs at $20 are dirt cheap compared to a $150 HID bulb with ballast..

Most folks gravitate to the CHEAP blue tint bulb.. It is often more about the "looks" than actual better lighting, some folks think it makes their $20K vehicle look more like a $60K sports car..

Scatter....mostly on USA DOT headlamps. E-Code lamps typically do
NOT have much if any at all...

That 'wing' is to light up road signs and pedestrians on the side of
the road

I too do NOT like HID's. Too high temp and washes out detail. So
much so, that it is NOT good if the level between eyeballs and light
source is too close. No shadows...therefore no depth perception, for me...

On HID's in lamps NOT designed for HID's...the point or source of
light is very different between their bulbs.

The engineering is out of wack when an HID bulb is placed into a
headlamp designed for a tungsten filament bulb. The size and shape
of that light source is different...therefor the the higher amounts
of scatter. Even in an E-Code lamp designed for a QH bulb


PS...guess which images below are of DOT headlamps and the owner
modified it with a 'shield' he mounted inside the lamp...hint...it
still has scatter above the cut off...because he is only dealing
with lens and the headlamp design also includes the reflector...which
he did not know HOW2 change...



rv.net, Posted: 01/03/07 03:19pm Fog lights and high beams zbeam e-code

benk wrote:



There is very little 'scatter' from 'good' lens. Both design and
materials...better ones have 'lead crystal', not glass, not plastic.
Lead crystal because QH bulbs run so hot, they can melt regular glass.
Also why OEM QH with plastic lens/housings have loooong runs with small
wire gauge to knock down the voltage so they don't burn as hot.

Scatter is what bugs most folks. Worse if the main beam shines into the eyeballs.
This is why many enthusiasts go to E-Code and toss the DOT code OEMs.
Poorly designed fog lamps will have scatter above and then makes them
almost useless as fog lamps.

Plain E-Code low's 'would' make good fog lamps if they were low enough.

Here's a set of pictures of an E-Code beam pattern. Notice the lack
of scatter above the beam pattern. Notice the 'wing', which is mandated
by specification. It's to light up road signs, pedestrians, etc.

Typical E-Code beam pattern:
e-code



E-Code Z beam. Notice the 'wing' is clipped.




Another E-Code beam pattern, but with the drivers side wing removed:



This is the drivers side head lamp with the removed wing:




Here's a head on with the same vehicle. One with OEM and other after
he switched to E-Code. Same height and same angle in reference to the
vehicle.

If there's so-called "scatter" occuring, then they are using HID bulbs in a non HID designated housing.

Gdetrailer wrote:
You can call it what you "like" but when I have a vehicle behind me with the blue tinted bulbs and a have a very sharp bright outline of my seats and head from said blue bulbs that tells me that the "pattern" of said blue bulbs is scattering well out of bounds from where they should be..

Even the folks leaving their high beams on while behind me does not give such a sharp outline..

If folks really want better headlights they need to address the low voltage to the bulbs first..

Manufacturers tend to use 18ga wire and lots of it, in the average vehicle there is easily 20ft if not 30ft of headlight wiring before it gets to the bulb..

Ready made relay kits typically use 14Ga and no more than 15ft of that since they connect directly to the battery..

Pretty much a solid bet that you will easily gain 20% better light by using a relay kit..

Dan is a consulting automotive lighting engineer. See my earlier post and forget about these other lousy "options". With 14v at the proper lamp with new housings it will be far better than the day it rolled off the assembly line.

One can wire the driving lights to come on with the highs. See TDR and CF for what others of us with CTDs have done. Bombing the Multifunction switch is one such thread.

No real "smoking gun" on this subject.. But many of the places I have looked at seem to agree with my observations that the blue tinted bulbs tend to not improve but may reduce your night vision. I have not been able to find any "evidence" that 5000K and up "improves" your night vision as of yet..

There are ways to achieve 4000k+ color temps without tinting the bulb. I did a quick search and found only anecdotal evidence that suggests color temps in the range of sunlight (4000-6000k) are "best". That's why I wondered why someone said 3200-3500k is best for nighttime performance. I haven't run across anything that suggests that range is ideal, but am open to supporting scientific evidence.

I've read a lot on Daniel Stern's site and used two of his recommended products (Nightbreakers and X-treme Vision) based upon his information. While I agree with much of his opinion, some of the evidence that he presents is anecdotal but he applies it to a broader scope of products. Some of that is common in this thread. There are a lot of poor products on the market today. However, there are ways to improve light output and performance for halogen bulbs without negatively influencing every other person on the road.

Thanks everyone for the useful info! Now I have a week's worth of reading ahead of me before making up my mind ;-)

APT wrote:
I understand about coatings are filters for quantity of light. But that does not mean all 5000k headlights have less light than 3500. Reducing light output with the compromise of color is silly. But I wonder why 3200-3500k is best for automotive lighting assuming all else equal. The only benefit I know of is fog where even lower color temps are ideal.

OEM Xenon headlights are in the 4000-5000k range and LED headlamps are 5000-6000k. While one of the "benefits" may be marketing it as different is better, there are a lot of engineers that design them to perform better. Owners of vehicles in general prefer both types over incandescent. I understand OEM designs are not the same as aftermarket conversions.

I suspect that the aftermarket crowds are the ones “pushing” the 5000K+ as an improvement in order to drive aftermarket sales.. Not to mention folks wanting to imitate the “look” of an expensive luxury auto on a beer budget by installing a $30 set of blue tinted bulbs (if "luxury cars" have "blue bulbs" then they must be better?).

Looks like BMW OEM bulbs are 4300K (Philips brand D2S) according to one of their forums..

HERE

No real "smoking gun" on this subject.. But many of the places I have looked at seem to agree with my observations that the blue tinted bulbs tend to not improve but may reduce your night vision. I have not been able to find any "evidence" that 5000K and up "improves" your night vision as of yet..

The Daniel Stern website has a real good discussion on what I touched about with filtering the light and the manufacturer of that bulb must use a higher output filament in order to maintain the min DOT lumens..

HERE

A few other notable websites..

HERE

HERE

HERE

I used to have study data pertaining to the effect of color temperature on night vision and visual acuity, but after looking around for the links last night and this morning, I cannot seem to find it. Therefore, I will relate only personal experiences in lieu of empirical evidence.

My workplace recently changed all of its fluorescent fixtures from 4100k "cool white" to 5000k "daylight" bulbs. The light output is definitely greater, which is to say that it's much brighter in here. Unfortunately, it is now much harder to make out details when looking at things which require proofing. The 5000k light seems to "wash out" the fine detail, requiring us to get closer to the light source, turn on more lights and/or use magnifying loupes to see things that we could see easily before the change. Additionally, I found that I would have a terrible eyestrain headache by lunchtime, and it wouldn't go away until after I had slept that evening. Last month I'd had enough, and I changed the lighting in my office to 3500k "warm white" bulbs. I am no longer having any trouble distinguishing details, and I'm no longer getting eyestrain headaches. Unfortunately, the rest of the shop is still using the 5000k bulbs, so when I have to work out in the back of the shop it's still just as bad.

In November, I borrowed my mother-in-law's Cadillac for a few weeks while my car was in the shop. Her HID headlights are very bright and white, but I found that I could only see things on the road as long as they were in the direct path of the lights. Anything outside the headlight pool disappeared completely. The regular halogen headlights on my car aren't as bright, but they allow me to see things on the side of the road, or far ahead of me in spots that are outside the headlamp's light pool. I also had trouble resolving fine details with the Cadillac (which is admittedly less of a problem at 60 mph than it is when trying to read 9 point type at work).

Last year, we changed all of the incandescent lighting in our fifth wheel over to LEDs. The first batch I bought had a high color temperature, in the 4100-5000k range. They hurt our eyes when coming in from outside at night, and made us blind when we went back out into the darkness. After changing them all over to 3500k LEDs, the problem went away. (as an aside, I have 25 4050 LED panels here that I'll never use if anyone needs them... They're too harsh and blue for us).

Your mileage may vary, APT. Everyone has their own opinions on the subject. I have found that high color temperature light looks brighter, but ironically makes it harder to see. It also makes my low-light vision take MUCH longer to recover after exposure to it.

I understand about coatings are filters for quantity of light. But that does not mean all 5000k headlights have less light than 3500. Reducing light output with the compromise of color is silly. But I wonder why 3200-3500k is best for automotive lighting assuming all else equal. The only benefit I know of is fog where even lower color temps are ideal.

OEM Xenon headlights are in the 4000-5000k range and LED headlamps are 5000-6000k. While one of the "benefits" may be marketing it as different is better, there are a lot of engineers that design them to perform better. Owners of vehicles in general prefer both types over incandescent. I understand OEM designs are not the same as aftermarket conversions.

APT wrote:

Stefonius wrote:
You're happy with 5000 Kelvin color temperature, but everyone else on the road with you is unhappy for miles after you encounter them.

I cannot say if my vehicle's lights bother you, just like you cannot say they bother "everyone else one the road". It seems that drivers today have not problems flashing their bright lights when oncoming vehicles lighting bother them. I'll stick with that feedback. If they are too bright or aimed poorly, I'll be warned - repeatedly.

For proper night vision, headlights should be in the 3200-3500 Kelvin range.

Why? Site sources.

I wished I had "sources" to validate the claims but I don't.

What I can tell you, from my own experience with light bulbs..

Years ago, I was wanting add a little more light in my garage.. So I bought a handful of 27W "daylight" CFLs which are 5000K temp to replace 23W Warm White (3500K) CFLs..

One would think that a 27W bulb would be a bit brighter than a 23W bulb.. right?

No, the 27W 5000K CFLs are DIMMER than the 23W 3500K CFLs :h :M

I am not the only one that noticed that.. my DW and DD along with my Dad and every other person that has been in my garage..

Spent a lot of money on those 5000K bulbs so I put up with them but as they die I am replacing them with 3500K bulbs..

I suspect with incadescent head light bulbs they are TINTING the bulb BLUE to "filter" out some of the yellow and other colors (you need red, green, blue in the proper proportion to get "white" light)..

When you FILTER, you BLOCK the other light that doesn't match the color of the filter. This results in LESS light output, the blue tinted bulbs compensate by making the filament draw MORE CURRENT.. It is a nasty cycle of losses.

It is very difficult (if not impossible) to get incadescent lights up to 5000K without the blue tint.

Technically they are WASTING a lot of light by filtering..

On edit..

I also wanted to add an additional observation from my experiences with 5000K CFLs..

In my garage I notice much more harsh "shadows".. it is if the higher K light does not "bend" or fill in around objects as well as lower K temp lights..

This makes working on vehicles even more troublesome than before..

Applying that bit of knowledge 5000K headlights would make it even more difficult to spot objects like deer beside the road if they happen to be near trees or light brush..

I have personally taken out 4 deer over the last 15 years and avoided dozens more.. I can tell you this they pop out of the shadows much faster than you can react.. I would not want my headlights throwing dark shadows out there that's for sure.