Ram 2500 Cummins Furel Mileage

Grit dog wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

Greene728 wrote:

SouthpawHD wrote:
Saw an article in Truck Trend where they reviewed the fuel mileage from a gasser and diesel, the upfront costs differences, and maintenance costs of each. They estimated it is close to 100,000 miles for the breakeven of owning a gasser over a diesel in terms of overall costs. I don't believe this was brand specific comparison, just overall general ownership costs.

Don't believe everything you read..;)

There is a fundamental issue with these comparisons that is not really addressed. They are based on the Assumption that you do not own either a gas or diesel engined truck to begin with.

But if you have equity/trade in value in a gas engine and move up to the diesel the equation and the results would be different. As it will be for me when and if I trade my 2014 for a 2016.

What in the world of cheese does equity have to do with it? That makes no sense. Not saying the 100k break even point is right or wrong but apples to apples, a dollar is still a dollar whether it's in physical property (trade in), cash down payment, keeping it a low mile garage queen so it sells for more $ down the road, or any other form or current or acquired equity.
With what you said, I could make the claim that a diesel is SOOO much cheaper to own because I traded in a paid off C6 corvette and out the door the truck only cost me $10k!
So that is totally better than the guy who financed $35k with zero down on his gasser truck.
Dang those diesels are cheap if you look at it that way!

First off I think you are misunderstanding the study, the issue and my post. Let me try to clarify it.

There are two types of expenses with a vehicle (and other things as well)

FIXED COSTS

and

OPERATING COSTS

The cost of the initial purchase and of the engine is a FIXED COST.

The cost of Fuel/oil/def etc are OPERATING costs.

This was about which was cheaper to OPERATE. The study quoted (often) is about which is Cheaper to OWN. Ie to Buy outright (no trade in and there IS VALUE in your trade in) and to keep until paid off.

My contention is that the study ignores the Value of the Trade in in the BUYING part of the equation.

Now to put this in a different light let me give this example:

The Diesel Engine in the Ram is a $9,900. (approx) option. But that is part of the FIXED Expenses not the operating ones. So if I consider the Fixed expenses of the two trucks together and their overall price difference The 5.7 litre Hemi also has a Fixed expense cost built in to it but not necessarily known.

But if the TERM of finance and the Payments are roughly EQUAL between the two trucks the Fixed Expense of the Diesel really is not an issue. Secondly it is the OPERATING expenses that will continue beyond the time of the Payment part of the Fixed expense.

So If the money I put down on my first truck, the 5.7 Hemi (10K in CASH) has some residual value along with my equity in the 20 months I have had the truck then that equity rolls over to the new truck. Which I contend makes the Study's findings suspect as they do not reflect real world economics.

Now the Cheapest Car I ever OWNED was my BMW 740iL it was a 1995 bought new. But in the long run of ownership. It's overall price of $76,000.00 and change, plus operating costs, which were very low as I did not have to replace even so much as a light bulb in the first 100,000 miles, compared to what I got for it when I sold it all made it cheaper to OWN than my Volvo Station Wagon from years earlier.

My contention was that the study is flawed in terms of "real world" economics. However there is no way for them to accurately include the variances of dealer pricing, discounts, differences in one persons ability to negotiate vs anothers and many other factors which bear directly on the FIXED costs.

burningman wrote:
You're making a big error thinking the stock MPG readout is more accurate than any supposed math errors most of us will make dividing out our own mileage.
Mine is consistently several MPG "optimistic".
If you want real world info you should be asking for the opposite: ONLY real, miles driven divided by gallons pumped figures. It's not complicated and your average guy can handle that without error.
The dash readout just isn't the precision instrument you're imagining it to be.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree that buying a diesel pickup isn't about gas mileage. My old 454 gas dually is infinitely cheaper overall to own than my Cummins truck is, despite the better MPG.
But that Cummins can run forever at full throttle without coming apart, and has twice the torque.
That's what it's about.

Well I think there is a VERY good case that I am correct about the EVIC readout and this is why:

The onboard Fuel management system/computer knows EXACTLY how much fuel is being put into the engine and how much is being returned to the tank. It also is measuring air input.

It is these figures that the EVIC uses and compares to your odometer to give your the readout on the dash.

Now when I figure my fuel mileage by hand (actually my Fuel Buddy App does it) I always include the Tenths of miles. Some do not do this. Even so between the variance of filling and math errors or induced errors (not using the tenths) people often think the hand method is best.

The Dodge Ram onboard computers are really state of the art for the automotive world.

Trust me...that math is correct.

You're making a big error thinking the stock MPG readout is more accurate than any supposed math errors most of us will make dividing out our own mileage.
Mine is consistently several MPG "optimistic".
If you want real world info you should be asking for the opposite: ONLY real, miles driven divided by gallons pumped figures. It's not complicated and your average guy can handle that without error.
The dash readout just isn't the precision instrument you're imagining it to be.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree that buying a diesel pickup isn't about gas mileage. My old 454 gas dually is infinitely cheaper overall to own than my Cummins truck is, despite the better MPG.
But that Cummins can run forever at full throttle without coming apart, and has twice the torque.
That's what it's about.

4X4Dodger wrote:
In my ongoing effort to decide to trade my Hemi for the diesel first let me say this: THIS IS NOT ABOUT TOWING CAPACITY. This is about FUEL ECONOMY.

My 5.7L Hemi tows my 8000# trailer over anything without trouble or working hard. The diesel will do the same.

What I would very much appreciate from some of you out there that have the Cummins is to post the FUEL MILEAGE that appears on your vehicles Electronic Info Center. (Please NOT what you figure by filling up)

Please note the approx weight you usually haul and the percentage of time hauling vs non hauling.

Some facts and figures for my towing: For the past 19779.5 miles (14 months) I have used 2141.02 Gals of gasoline with an average fuel mileage of 9.32MPG. Now for me MOST of those miles are towing and in generally hilly or mountainous areas.

My average fuel price/gal over that time was $2.54. I spent $5440.19 for gas.

Now if the Cummins Diesel will reliably give me Just a 2MPG avg better, IE 11.32MPG Then I would have only purchased 1747.3 Gallons of fuel. Resulting in a savings of $1000.76 At present the prices for diesel are very close to or up to a dollar less than gasoline and that would have added to those savings since I figured this on the price for gasoline.

Now these figures come from my Fuel Buddy App which is not as accurate as the Electronic fuel mileage readout in the truck. So in reality my savings would be a bit lower since my mileage is actually higher than indicated here.

Even with the additional cost of DEF and the higher cost of oil changes I will still come out ahead because. The Cummins Diesel is rated to go 15K between oil Changes, almost twice the 8000 of my gas engine. My present oil changes cost me about $80-90 (I use Synthetic oil) The same oil changes at most Dodge Dealers I have been to will run $124 to $140.

So I welcome your comments on this but PLEASE lets not get into the relative merits of hauling for the diesel vs the gas...that is NOT part of this decision.

Thanks in advance to all who answer

2012 2500 Laramie Longhorn w/6.7 Cummins HO - Towed 29ft fiver twice, 2500 miles and then 1700 miles... both times mileage was nearly the same. 10.7 and 10.8 MPG as measure by the onboard system.

back to the original question ... 2007 2500 ram CTD 4x4 6 speed manual - I get 19.8 on the console lie-o-meter empty. Towing I get 15 if I go east, 13 if I go west ... somebody will get it. :)

4X4Dodger wrote:

Greene728 wrote:

SouthpawHD wrote:
Saw an article in Truck Trend where they reviewed the fuel mileage from a gasser and diesel, the upfront costs differences, and maintenance costs of each. They estimated it is close to 100,000 miles for the breakeven of owning a gasser over a diesel in terms of overall costs. I don't believe this was brand specific comparison, just overall general ownership costs.

Don't believe everything you read..;)

There is a fundamental issue with these comparisons that is not really addressed. They are based on the Assumption that you do not own either a gas or diesel engined truck to begin with.

But if you have equity/trade in value in a gas engine and move up to the diesel the equation and the results would be different. As it will be for me when and if I trade my 2014 for a 2016.

What in the world of cheese does equity have to do with it? That makes no sense. Not saying the 100k break even point is right or wrong but apples to apples, a dollar is still a dollar whether it's in physical property (trade in), cash down payment, keeping it a low mile garage queen so it sells for more $ down the road, or any other form or current or acquired equity.
With what you said, I could make the claim that a diesel is SOOO much cheaper to own because I traded in a paid off C6 corvette and out the door the truck only cost me $10k!
So that is totally better than the guy who financed $35k with zero down on his gasser truck.
Dang those diesels are cheap if you look at it that way!

N-Trouble wrote:

SouthpawHD wrote:
Saw an article in Truck Trend where they reviewed the fuel mileage from a gasser and diesel, the upfront costs differences, and maintenance costs of each. They estimated it is close to 100,000 miles for the breakeven of owning a gasser over a diesel in terms of overall costs. I don't believe this was brand specific comparison, just overall general ownership costs.

Mileage should be the LAST reason why you choose a diesel over gas. You buy a diesel because you want/need the pulling power. PERIOD! Trying to justify based on mileage is futile with all things considered.

At around 65,000 miles a year put on some of our trucks the fuel mileage adds up pretty quick. Our President use to think the same as you until I showed him that the two GM 2500's with a 6.0 gas motor was averaging between 7&8 MPG the way they were loaded and now those two trucks have been replaced by 2 new Cummins 3500 cab chassis and returning 11&12 with the same load other than the new trucks are heavier from the git go. We did spend more money to get the diesel but we are also expecting to get 50% more miles out of them also and still be worth more on the back end. Those two 6.0 gasser really took a beating and held up really good but at 225,000 miles they were pretty sick.

SouthpawHD wrote:
Saw an article in Truck Trend where they reviewed the fuel mileage from a gasser and diesel, the upfront costs differences, and maintenance costs of each. They estimated it is close to 100,000 miles for the breakeven of owning a gasser over a diesel in terms of overall costs. I don't believe this was brand specific comparison, just overall general ownership costs.

Mileage should be the LAST reason why you choose a diesel over gas. You buy a diesel because you want/need the pulling power. PERIOD! Trying to justify based on mileage is futile with all things considered.

I found that diesel engines get about 2 - 4 mpg better than gas engines regardless of load being pulled or terrain being traveled. I also found that if you have to justify a major purchase like a diesel truck, you need to drive a lot of miles. Otherwise, the decision is simple and you get one because you want one. But you probably already knew this.

I averaged about 12 mpg towing on our only trip so far and that was in the NC mountains with some 6-7% grades.
That's going by the dash. I've never hand calculated it, just in case the truth hurts too much.