Ram 3500 DRW 6.4L Hemi "Game Changer"

I bought used, but here's my story. I bought my first diesel truck in March this year, a 2004.5 Ram Cummins 2500. Right now, we tow a 28.5' 7500 lb TT. I'm very impressed with the ease with which it tows the TT, and the fuel mileage, both empty and towing. I get much better mileage than if I had bought a used big block gas truck, which I seriously considered. Even figuring the premium for diesel over gas where I live and tow (25 cents), my overall fuel cost is lower with the diesel.

By buying the diesel, I have the option, should we decide to, to trade to a much bigger and heavier trailer, even a fifth wheel. If I had bought a big block gas 3/4 ton, I personally would not wish to tow more than I already do.

I also figure that my resale on this truck when I sell it, let's say it's then 15 years old, will be much better than if I had bought a used big block gas. Not to mention that there will be much more interest in this (mostly) pre-emissions diesel, than in a big block gas truck of a similar vintage when I sell it. I did look at used gasser 3/4 ton trucks before I bought my present truck, and to get a clean one, I would have had to pay almost as much as I paid for my clean used Ram Cummins truck.

In 5 years or so, if I sell this truck, I would shop for another used Ram Cummins, no question. This even though I understand that they have a lot more emissions equipment than my truck has. I have owned many gas vehicles and enjoyed them and still do, but for towing, I am sold on owning a diesel.

The Hemi will still not come close to the towing ability of a diesel. If you plan to tow and work the truck, a diesel is the only way to go.

If you are going to run with the big dogs, you have to lift your leg a little higher.....


Ken

RoyJ wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
" Many don't realize the maintenance cost of diesels until they own one"

I really don't understand statements like this. My 2011 RAM Oil and filter 7,500 miles, fuel filter 15,000 miles, Air filter when it tells you to change it, 35K on my air filter right now still no message telling me to change.

Dirt cheap in my opinion.

How much oil does an ISB require versus Hemi? What about coolant? Some diesel require special coolants for cavitation protection (Detroit Diesel). Air filters costs more, because a diesel congests more air by default.

That's pre-07 (which I'm willing to accept), then factoring in the following:

DEF, DPF cleaning / repair / replacement, turbo replacements from excessive EGR soot. Or if you choose to delete, you'll have up come up with your own kit since the EPA has killed all delete kits. This I will NOT accept.

I've been a Cummins fan for a long time, and been following TDR and Cumminsforum closely for 10 years. I'm not a diesel hater by a long shot - own two diesels, and driven countless class 8 rigs and coaches.

Modern gassers can run 100k miles on literally nothing but oil changes (less than 8 qts), maybe a filter change around 50k. No diesels I'm aware of can do that. In addition, I'm much more comfortable doing 5 mile short trips on a gasser, than a diesel. Commuters like that rack up huge maintenance / repair bills.

There's a time and place for diesels - heavy hauling. But for 75% of pickup truck owners, that's only 5% of their truck ownership!

I don't care about the other brands, Cummins is what I am referring to.

12qts oil and a $12 Fleetguard filter. Dirt cheap.

My truck has been cheap to maintain even using AMZ/OIL products. Look at the cost of Fleetguard filters on genos.com.

No special coolant additives.

When comparing Diesels one should look at cost of maintenance.

Buck50HD wrote:
I'm confused as to how it's a game changer when the 6.4 was shown to get worse fuel economy than the GM 6.0 and Ford 6.2 in the recent PUT.com comparison. There may have been some error in their pump-clicking method but two separate tests showed the same trend.

Looks like the display is a little optimistic?

I think that test showed they were all within 1 mpg or so loaded and empty, yet the hemi makes 50 more hp and 49 additional lbs-ft of torque when compared to the GM 6.0L gas engine.

I am not sure that "game changer" technology for HD gas engines even exists. There is only so much energy in a gallon of gas. You can use exotic transmissions, cylinder deactivation, direct injection, turbo chargers to maximize (or save) that energy, but when you need to make power, you will burn through gas to get it. Before "game changer" engines can exist, "game changer" technology has to exist.

I think proof of this is how the old GM 6.0 did compared to the much newer gas engines from Ford and Ram in the gas engine test. The newer engines in my view, while outpaced the 6.0, it was not as much as one would think considering the age of the 6.0. Compare that to a a diesel test between a 15 yoa diesel engine verse the latest crop of diesel engines.

I'm confused as to how it's a game changer when the 6.4 was shown to get worse fuel economy than the GM 6.0 and Ford 6.2 in the recent PUT.com comparison. There may have been some error in their pump-clicking method but two separate tests showed the same trend.

Looks like the display is a little optimistic?

Cummins12V98 wrote:
" Many don't realize the maintenance cost of diesels until they own one"

I really don't understand statements like this. My 2011 RAM Oil and filter 7,500 miles, fuel filter 15,000 miles, Air filter when it tells you to change it, 35K on my air filter right now still no message telling me to change.

Dirt cheap in my opinion.

How much oil does an ISB require versus Hemi? What about coolant? Some diesel require special coolants for cavitation protection (Detroit Diesel). Air filters costs more, because a diesel congests more air by default.

That's pre-07 (which I'm willing to accept), then factoring in the following:

DEF, DPF cleaning / repair / replacement, turbo replacements from excessive EGR soot. Or if you choose to delete, you'll have up come up with your own kit since the EPA has killed all delete kits. This I will NOT accept.

I've been a Cummins fan for a long time, and been following TDR and Cumminsforum closely for 10 years. I'm not a diesel hater by a long shot - own two diesels, and driven countless class 8 rigs and coaches.

Modern gassers can run 100k miles on literally nothing but oil changes (less than 8 qts), maybe a filter change around 50k. No diesels I'm aware of can do that. In addition, I'm much more comfortable doing 5 mile short trips on a gasser, than a diesel. Commuters like that rack up huge maintenance / repair bills.

There's a time and place for diesels - heavy hauling. But for 75% of pickup truck owners, that's only 5% of their truck ownership!

Bionic Man wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
Gas engines and transmissions have made huge strides in the last decade, whereas EPA has forced a decline (or at best stagnate) of overall progress on diesels.

Not sure I would agree with that statement. 10 years ago a typical diesel was around 300 hp and 600 lb/ft of torque. Today, it is around 400 / 850. Today's diesels are quieter, cleaner, and with DEF at least as fuel efficient, probably more so, than 10 years ago. Doesn't seem like a decline to me.

Power wise, sure, it has improved. But diesel ownership is not just about power.

Think about overall cost of ownership - cost of maintenance, cost of inventory for a fleet owner, cost of repairs. Think about the general "fragility" of modern DEF+EGR diesels - no excessive idling, secondary power source to heat DEF in sub-freezing conditions.

To me, that's not an overall "progress" of technology. And many, many, owner operators and fleet operators of heavy trucks and buses agree with me. In fact, many people are buying new rolling chassis (glider kits) and retro-fitting pre-07 engines.

I'd love to sit down with the EPA and ask them just how much a net reduction in emissions, planet wide, they achieved. Factoring in all DPF, SCR system manufacturing, extra repairs, the production of urea (fertilizer production was criticized for decades for their enviro hazards), not to mentioned power packs on semis needed due to no-idle regulations.

BTW, a 5.9 CR can easily be tuned to modern 6.7 power levels. With a well selected turbo and inter cooler combo, you can also achieve very low particulate emissions. Would it put out more NoX emissions? Sure it would. So would the steel factory cranking out SCR and DFPs, mining of rare earth metals, urea production, and all the shipping and a assembly involved...

Bionic Man wrote:

RoyJ wrote:
Gas engines and transmissions have made huge strides in the last decade, whereas EPA has forced a decline (or at best stagnate) of overall progress on diesels.

Not sure I would agree with that statement. 10 years ago a typical diesel was around 300 hp and 600 lb/ft of torque. Today, it is around 400 / 850. Today's diesels are quieter, cleaner, and with DEF at least as fuel efficient, probably more so, than 10 years ago. Doesn't seem like a decline to me.

Totally agree.

Best part they have the power right out of the box!

" Many don't realize the maintenance cost of diesels until they own one"

I really don't understand statements like this. My 2011 RAM Oil and filter 7,500 miles, fuel filter 15,000 miles, Air filter when it tells you to change it, 35K on my air filter right now still no message telling me to change.

Dirt cheap in my opinion.