Ram 3500 max tow vs F450

Hannibal wrote:

downtheroad wrote:
Why not conduct these kinds of tests with a 'real' RV?
A flat bed trailer (goose neck hitch) and a load of bricks???

Put a full sized fully loaded - say a Mobile Suits - on these trucks and take them into the mountains with long up and down grades, and into very hot desert with a strong cross wind and have at it.

I agree. 35mph up the grade with no wind resistance? Toss in the wind resistance of a high profile 5th wheel loaded to advertised max tow rating and let's see if these heavy haulers live up to their hype.

I get 11 mpg out of the truck pulling my rv but many loads that are not necessarily a whole lot heavier have worked the truck much harder....in the range of 5 - 6 mpg. Even though the frontal area of a high profile RV's is huge they seem to allow the air to flow over them much better than some loads on a flat deck. At 35 mph wind resistance is not a big factor compared to the power required to pull a heavy trailer up a steep grade. I hauled this load about 2000 miles and got around 6 mpg even though it only weighed in the neighborhood of 19,000 lbs. It seemed to catch the air much worse than I had expected.

My trailer weighs more than 20k and I have no problem going up or down the grades-
The M2 is a nice rig but it really has even less market now that the big 3 have upped the ratings and performance of their DRW trucks. That combined with how easy the modern class 8 trucks are to drive and there is really very little reason to buy an M2. What little market share the M2 had carved out has been effectively eaten up from both sides.

I can't wait to see how the Dodge does against the Ford!

rjstractor wrote:

larry barnhart wrote:
I was not thinking it was a poor result but it's combined weight rating seems it would be much slower than is excepted for 850 ft lbs of torque. Probably the reason for not towing that much weight.
chevman

I think that's more indicative of the extreme grade and elevation of the Eisenhower. IIRC it's 8%, topping out at 11,000 feet. Makes anything we have here in Washington seem like a speed bump. Take a class 8 truck and hook a 17K trailer to it and I doubt it would go much faster up that hill, even with 1800 ft.lbs of torque.

My trailer is close at 16500# . but you are incorrect , it goes up any 7-8% grade like it isn't there. and at the speed limit.

hammer21661 wrote:

Hillbilly Camper wrote:
Wow, I haven't read ALL the posts here but have read the last few. I have a '97 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel dually that has pulled a mobile home before, and also has pulled a semi out of a ditch. Personally, that is all the pulling power I would need, especially if it comes to hauling something lighter like a camper.

Just sayin'.... We are not pulling airplanes here lol. Also, I don't need a brand NEW truck, just one I can depend on.

Yeah yeah yeah my 7.3 gets 30 mpg can pull a freight train and is faster then a Ferrari. Don't you 7.3 guys get tired of spouting that crap. If they were sooooooo great why don't they make them anymore? I am not saying they are junk but they are not that great.

The 7.3 was/still is a great engine...heck they don't make the 8.1 496 Chevy engine anymore and it was AWESOME!!( I had one:)). Doesn't mean anything was wrong with them. I'm a Ram guy now, but there are still some good, "older" engines out there, just because they're not being "made" anymore doesn't take away from how good some of them were and still are. They're not putting the 5.9 Cummins in trucks anymore..doesn't mean there was anything wrong with it..

I've only been a "Dodge/Ram" owner for a little over three years and I see how a lot like to "gang up" on us, especially when Ram has come out with the new 13's and the newer tow ratings...a bunch are just setting out there HOPING that Rams new trucks will fail. Let's not act like some of those who bash and slam on Ram owners every chance they get by bashing on others...Hillbilly Camper is not one of them, he just made a statement, no big deal...not everyone is out to slam us:)

hammer21661 wrote:

Hillbilly Camper wrote:
Wow, I haven't read ALL the posts here but have read the last few. I have a '97 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel dually that has pulled a mobile home before, and also has pulled a semi out of a ditch. Personally, that is all the pulling power I would need, especially if it comes to hauling something lighter like a camper.

Just sayin'.... We are not pulling airplanes here lol. Also, I don't need a brand NEW truck, just one I can depend on.

Yeah yeah yeah my 7.3 gets 30 mpg can pull a freight train and is faster then a Ferrari. Don't you 7.3 guys get tired of spouting that crap. If they were sooooooo great why don't they make them anymore? I am not saying they are junk but they are not that great.

Nope. I never get tired of saying it. It obviously doesn't get 30 mpg lol, but it is a truck I can depend on and it only has about 116,000 miles on it. Still runs like a champ and will pretty much pull anything WE will ever need to pull.

I don't have to run out and buy new things all the time, we just take care of the ones we have so they are dependable in the future.

I have to agree with wintersun on the over 20,000lb tow.
chevman

They are testing two trucks with comparable tow ratings, nothing more. Ram has gotten a lot of free press with its 28,000 lb. tow rating and the people at this magazine want to test it against the F-450 which makes perfect sense. Same class of engine is being used in both.

More interesting to me was the testing done by Car and Driver in April 2012 and a year earlier by Mrtrailer.com with 1-tons from the big three pulling heavy trailer loads and running obstacle courses, pulling up the Eisenhower grade and going back down the other side where the engine braking/transmision/exhaust brake need to work well together to be effective. In this last area GM came out on top and Ford was next and Ram had the poorest performance. This is the test that is of most significant for anyone who plans to pulling a heavy trailer around in the west.

When the trailer weight is greater than 20,000 lbs. I would be looking at a Freightliner M2 and not a pickup to get the better transmission and better brakes.

A lot of people don't realize that the high power density chassis cab axles (aka Dana 110, 130) have input power limit specifications that are less than that of the Dana 80. I know it doesn't make sense at all, but I've read the paperwork from Dana (can't point you to it, sorry).

This is one of (several) factors that enters into the equation that explains why the late model chassis cabs having engines that are derated when compared to the pick ups.

The F450 pickup is better matched to the 3500 than it would be to a 4500.

The F450 chassis cab would be better matched to the 4500 chassis cab.

I too, wish that a GM 3500 would be thrown in for comparison. I also wish that an actual 5th wheel RV trailer would be used. In particular, a true towing test would include frontal area loading, not just with a billboard facing front with weights on the back of flat bed trailer. A more realistic test would include the fully box sail profile of a real trailer, with all of it's eddy currents and other wind loads

Engineer9860 wrote:

powderman426 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:
Is the Ford going to have the de-rated 300HP 450 engine? If so, it's going to look silly.

Oh Oh. The Ford guys are making excuses already. This should be good.

T&P making excuses for Ford? Lol.

Laughed my *&^ off also :B

The current GM product may not have the ratings to compete but I would be willing to bet the GM truck (as it currently sits) would meet or beat both the Ford and Dodge up and down the mountain. :) Hope I am wrong and that GM is really forced to make major upgrades to the current truck to stay competitive but I just don't see it (from a frame, running gear, brakes etc...) other than the others have higher ratings.

As for interiors... the GM definitely is in need of a major overhaul. Both the Dodge and Ford are far superior.

I look forward to reading the article. I really hope the Ford and Dodge preform flawlessly and are just incredible. I have no problem buying any of the big three.