RAM EcoDiesel a Flop for Towing

Huge shocker here. Some people think it did fine (count me in this group) and some people think it fell on it's face.

I give ram credit for being willing to gamble on a LD diesel in a 1/2 ton. I think it is turning out very well for them, short of the reliability troubles that are popping up..

Deleted

The Mad Norsky wrote:
Shiner I gotta admit you're really making a mountain out of a mole-hill here.

Trust me, I would like to say my opinion and be done with it, but he keeps responding and challenging my opinion so you got what we have here here which is the way he wants it. So he gets it..... I don't like it anymore than you do.

:) Hi, one more stick in the spokes for you. And what difference did it make? Did anyone notice the bare trailer with the Bronco on it being towed by the Ford? And did anyone notice that same trailer when towed by the Dodge had an aluminum, diamond plate nose on it?

Shiner I gotta admit you're really making a mountain out of a mole-hill here.

wilber1 wrote:


Yes a difference of 1.4%. On an engine of 350 HP that's a whole 4.9 HP. Massive.

If you think you should be able to hold the speed limit when towing the max, you have never towed heavy.

Actually it is a bit more than that. Please read at the bottom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

I have towed as heavy as I wanted. I have been in scenarios where I was only doing 45 mph up hills, but that was many moons ago. However, as I stated before, times have changed and the bar has been raised. Just a truck only being able to brake from 60-0 at 200 ft is no longer acceptable, neither is not being able to not even do the speed limit when towing your rated weight. If the truck is struggling as bad as the Ecodiesel did in that test when not even towing it's max rated weight, then Ram needs to man up and lower the tow rating to something it can better handle at a reasonable speed and without having to have your foot to the floor the whole way. I even think bigger trucks like the Ram 3500 and Ford F350s with these 30k tow ratings should be lowered.

The amount of power an engine can put out is determined by how much fuel and air mixture it can burn in a given time. There are only 3 ways to increase that. Increase displacement, increase RPM or increase manifold pressure. That is basic.

Okay, what is the cylinder pressure of the Ecoboost versus the Ecodiesel? What is the max turbo boost pressure of the Ecoboost versus the Ecodiesel? I will give you a hint, the Ecoboost is lower in both.


Also, there are a bit more ways to make more power than those that you stated like allowing air to move more quickly and freely through the engine, cooling the incoming air, and increasing compression ratio to name a few more.

Actually you did say that.

No, I didn't

I've never maintained the ED isn't underpowered by comparison to the EB because it is. I have questioned the assertion that because the ED is running at WOT, it is a given that it is more stressed than the EB. Some engines can run at WOT all day and many can't. It depends on what the designers had in mind when they built it.

No, it depends on if a fanboy wants to make excuses for his favorite brands engine too. The Ecodiesel was running at a higher rpm, at WOT, and had no power to spare while not even towing its max rated weight yet. So you are saying it wasn't struggling to pull that weight? Although I do think it is a bit funny because your "maybe it is designed to run at WOT" kind of contradicts your "the Ecoboost was more stressed because it had more boost pressure(even though it doesn't)" because maybe the Ecoboost was designed to handle that kind of boost pressure with it's CGI block.

Facts are still the facts, that Ecodiesel could barely hold within 10 mph of the speed limit up that hill, with no power to spare, and the pedal to the floor while not even towing it's max rated tow rating (which makes me wonder how it would have done towing its max). The Ecoboost on the other hand was able to tow the same trailer while easily holding the speed limit, had power to spare if needed, was not foor to the floor the whole way, and was at a lower rpm doing it. To top it all off, for some odd reason Ram thinks it can tow more than the 2.7L EB like we believe them after watching that video.

Good, now you know that there is a difference between American and European power numbers. Either way you put it the Ecodiesel is underpowered compared to the 2.7L Ecoboost no matter what slow speed you are willing to go up the mountain at. Why Ram rated that Ecodiesel to tow more than the 2.7L Ecoboost is beyond me. Maybe those that designed the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel considers only being able to go 50 mph towing less than its max rating is acceptable while Ford thinks you would be able to at least keep the speed limit when towing the max.

Yes a difference of 1.4%. On an engine of 350 HP that's a whole 4.9 HP. Massive.

If you think you should be able to hold the speed limit when towing the max, you have never towed heavy.

Because what you stated wasn't. Since you are competent at Google searching, why don't you look up the cylinder and boost pressures of the Ecoboost and Ecodiesel so you can understand why I said "no and no" to your assumptions.

The amount of power an engine can put out is determined by how much fuel and air mixture it can burn in a given time. There are only 3 ways to increase that. Increase displacement, increase RPM or increase manifold pressure. That is basic.

I never stated winter diesel had to be #1 one only, and asked if they never had number #1 either blended with #2 or straight. Here in south Texas, our winter diesel is a blend of #1 and #2, but the fact still remains that you get less fuel economy versus straight #2 regardless if it is only #1 or a blend of both.

Actually you did say that.

Again, you stated that you don't like to have to go WOT on your equipment earlier. Fact is when towing 7,200 lbs, you would have to be closer to WOT in the Ecodiesel versus the 2.7L Ecoboost because the Ecodiesel is underpowered in comparison.

I've never maintained the ED isn't underpowered by comparison to the EB because it is. I have questioned the assertion that because the ED is running at WOT, it is a given that it is more stressed than the EB. Some engines can run at WOT all day and many can't. It depends on what the designers had in mind when they built it.

If manufacturer's based their tow ratings on what they could pull up a 7% grade at 9,000', cruising at 60 mph the entire HD line in particular would need to drop their ratings considerably. The HD gasser's rating's would almost need to be cut in half. Again, I think the Ram did fine and I wouldn't be dissapointed in its performance but one thing is for sure, I couldn't be more impressed with the Ecoboost line. I don't need to go on about that, I am sure everyone in this thread has watched the Ike Gauntlet video's with the 3.5 and 2.7. If I were in the 1/2 ton market the only desicion I would need to make is what Ecoboost I wanted to go with.

We used to have no1 available at the pumps here but its been awhile since i have seen it. I have never seen no1 in Reno or west of there ever and i have been driving dsl pickups since 85.

wilber1 wrote:

A bit different. Like 1.4%
Horesepower. Confusion and Resolution

On edit. Just because an engine is operating at below its rated HP does not mean it is struggling less than one that is. It depends on the design parameters. A 2.5L F1 engine producing 300 HP is not guaranteed to be more reliable than a 4L V8 rated at 300 HP, just because the F1 engine is only operating at 40% of its rated 700+ HP.

Good, now you know that there is a difference between American and European power numbers. Either way you put it the Ecodiesel is underpowered compared to the 2.7L Ecoboost no matter what slow speed you are willing to go up the mountain at. Why Ram rated that Ecodiesel to tow more than the 2.7L Ecoboost is beyond me. Maybe those that designed the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel considers only being able to go 50 mph towing less than its max rating is acceptable while Ford thinks you would be able to at least keep the speed limit when towing the max.

That's intelligent. :h

Because what you stated wasn't. Since you are competent at Google searching, why don't you look up the cylinder and boost pressures of the Ecoboost and Ecodiesel so you can understand why I said "no and no" to your assumptions.

On Dec. 29 we hooked up our fith wheel and headed down the I5 to Southern California. We just got back Friday and during that time I never saw one pump labelled #1 but plenty labelled #2 and I have never seen a pump labelled #1 where I live.

The fact is, refineries do not switch to just #1 in the winter, they blend #1 and #2 according to area climate and season. I suspect that on the west coast where nightly lows are rarely below a few degrees below freezing regardless of season, little or no #1 is required in the blend.

I never stated winter diesel had to be #1 one only, and asked if they never had number #1 either blended with #2 or straight. Here in south Texas, our winter diesel is a blend of #1 and #2, but the fact still remains that you get less fuel economy versus straight #2 regardless if it is only #1 or a blend of both.

Again, you stated that you don't like to have to go WOT on your equipment earlier. Fact is when towing 7,200 lbs, you would have to be closer to WOT in the Ecodiesel versus the 2.7L Ecoboost because the Ecodiesel is underpowered in comparison.