Real weights of an arctic Fox 1140?

brholt wrote:

Vinsil wrote:
For sure, never mind the F450 has larger brakes, larger rear axle, 19.5's....but by all means, the F350 is a better hauler. Amazing!

I know when I was shopping for my truck in 2013 I was a bit puzzled by the F450. As you noted, bigger components so you would figure it would haul better. Only thing I could figure was GVWR is determined by the weakest component. That suggested, as noted i. The other thread, maybe the spring pack wasn't any stronger and the weakest link. Alternatively maybe the frame on the pickups isn't really suited for more than 14,000 pounds. It is interesting the higher rated F450 chassis / cab model uses a different frame.

Really liked the turning radius though.

You're correct, the 450 pickups are like a 3500hd, or 4500 light. And it is possible the frame is the lowest common denominator, but if it was then the 3500s wouldn't have more payload as most of the addl weight in a 4500 pickup (not C&C) is unsprung weight. (Bigger wheels, axle and brakes).
Also, as a ME, you know design considerations are surrounded by liability. And with that, a reputable smart company is going to put a greater factor of safety into the components that, if they fail, would cause catastrophic failure and great liability problems.
To that point, in years, I've seen only 1 pic of a frame failure, was a ford and on this website, but that's not pertinent. I've not heard of any HD pickup splitting a rim and tossing the wheel off the truck resulting in a fiery crash, although I've read of a couple cracked rims. But I've personally had, seen or replaced several broken leaf springs over the years.
I've also seen MANY trucks used daily at so far over their rated gvws that they'd make Ralph Nader roll over in his grave.
I've driven mostly F150 company trucks for about 20 years now and my typical load on a few of them was a large cross box and 2 side boxes with as many tools as I could stuff in them. Then what little bed space was left usually was full of stuff that was not light! All that on c clip axles and sometimes 15" tires, 40kmi a year, 90mph across the desert almost daily in 0 degree or 110degree weather. Popped a couple tires and a leaf spring occasionally. Never fell a part though.
Of all those in personal experience, just one truck literally was destroyed to the point that a catastrophic failure was certainly imminent.
It was a brand new 1989 Dodge 350 dually. 360 gasser that I installed a dump bed on for the landscape nursery I turned wrenches for in high school.
In the first 30?kmi this truck had bent both rear axle shafts, bent one side axle tube, couple sets of outer bearings. Axle was junked and replaced when the tube bent. New brakes and or rotors every other month it seemed and the frame cracked over the rear axle on both sides at different times. Had a shop weld and plate the first one. Copied their work and did it myself on the other side when it went.
Reason for all this, was my boss was dumb and didn't understand anything we are talking about here. It was the first dually dump we had, save for some old LN 700s and C60s that weren't really road worthy. And this truck was put thru he!!
Best load I seen, it came back one night, had the NH 785 skid steer in the dump bed! Along with 2 or 4 36" root ball trees. Still dunno how they got them up there AFTER the skid steer was loaded. Dually tandem tag trailer, gvw Unknown, with 2 shredded flat tires and 12-16? Of the same size trees, like 25 footers with 3' dia root balls!
That was the immediate cause of the first frame crack.
After that, I don't think twice about putting 4000lbs in the back of a 3/4 ton truck with a 10klb rear axle and feel safe doing it.
I bet that little dually was grossing well over 40000gcvw that day. Oh and it towed that big tag trailer everywhere on the OE Dodgge 2" square receiver hitch.

Another reason I don't get as wound up with a little hitch extension here or there like that thread.

Vinsil wrote:
Dana 110 is a medium duty rear axle and will carry the weight better as you will never be close to a max load on it.

Yep, it's definitely a monster axle, for a pickup! :B

Grit dog wrote:
Know that gvws are only a rough guideline for vehicle classes and do not delve into specific component strengths or their suitability in a certain combination.
Look no further than 9900lb gvw 2500s that are no different than a 12000lb gvw 3500 save for the badge on the fender.

So what 9,900 gvw 2500 is exactly the same as a 12k gvw 3500 other than the badge? EXACTLY the same! ????? If that's true why do you have ''Firestone Bags, Big Wig swaybar, homemade stable loads'' on your 2500??

Honestly I think you are being misleading and helping people justify their 250/2500 carrying a 5k truck camper... ''cause you just need to add some better wheels''.......

Know that gvws are only a rough guideline for vehicle classes and do not delve into specific component strengths or their suitability in a certain combination.
Look no further than 9900lb gvw 2500s that are no different than a 12000lb gvw 3500 save for the badge on the fender.

Vinsil wrote:
For sure, never mind the F450 has larger brakes, larger rear axle, 19.5's....but by all means, the F350 is a better hauler. Amazing!

I know when I was shopping for my truck in 2013 I was a bit puzzled by the F450. As you noted, bigger components so you would figure it would haul better. Only thing I could figure was GVWR is determined by the weakest component. That suggested, as noted in the other thread, maybe the spring pack wasn't any stronger and the weakest link. Alternatively maybe the frame on the pickups isn't really suited for more than 14,000 pounds. It is interesting the higher rated F450 chassis / cab model uses a different frame.

Really liked the turning radius though.

Dana 110 is a medium duty rear axle and will carry the weight better as you will never be close to a max load on it.

brholt wrote:
Sort of on topic. Here is a snapshot of Fords Truck Camper weight loading guide (2013). It's 140 pages and shows how truck options effect the weight of the truck and the center of gravity for all of the truck configurations.



Note the weight savings of Getting rid of the DEF tank.

Some weights on this chart make no sense...

How does spray-on bedliner subtract 2 lbs from each axle?
How do fog lights add 3 lbs to the rear axle and nothing to the front axle?
How does a chrome exhaust tip extension remove 6 lbs from the front axle and add nothing to the rear axle?

I assume the option for deleting the DEF tank is for body upfitters who will later add their own DEF tank in a different location. I don't think you can completely remove the DEF tank permanently and still be emissions legal, or have the engine and computer run right...

Vinsil wrote:
For sure, never mind the F450 has larger brakes, larger rear axle, 19.5's....but by all means, the F350 is a better hauler. Amazing!

I had a big post saying exactly this and it wouldn't post yesterday.
Get the bigger truck and add a couple springs in back if you need them.
The 450 pickup from what little I know about Fords is a 350 wide track with all the same or larger components save for rear spring rate. Not the least of which is the rear axle. That's the key component to hauling more payload.
No brainer which one is a stouter truck.

For sure, never mind the F450 has larger brakes, larger rear axle, 19.5's....but by all means, the F350 is a better hauler. Amazing!

brholt wrote:
But the F350's are actually better at hauling, at least if you care about the official GVWR. ... In the case of Ford, it cost you almost 1,000 lbs.

Obviously, some of us disagree that the F350 is a better TC hauler (see the recent thread.) ;) It does have higher rated payload capacity in pickup model. By your chart by 100 lbs which isn't significant. Also, that year F450 model didn't have 19.5s.

In any case, I think I've shown the true engine/transmission weight difference has to be less than 500 according to their chart. Also, true that the GVWR can be more.

It would make more sense to just have a FAWR and RAWR, but the manufacturers don't seem to be listening to us. :) Well, my F450 only lists FAWR and RAWR in the door. As others have pointed out, there seems to be more in play besides actual maximums.