Ripping mad

Westernparkrvowner - I do remember hearing he died much earlier at some point since I'd originally heard the story (it seems like I heard that on a tv show in relation to one of the ship wrecks...). I believe it was one of his nieces that owned the mansion - who knows who it was that was doing the pressuring. I first heard the story from my mom when I was pretty little, while looking at the picture of their farm with this giant mansion in the background. This was in Glen Cove NY. Funny comment about the it being illegal to collect that stuff now. Farmers hate that. Can't remove it and it gets called an acheological site or so I've heard. Back then that stuff was just leftover garbage......now any garbage over some age is illegal to remove in the national forest. Regardless I think everyone is happy the collected it and donated it back. And I want to quit detracting from this thread....

In Colorado my truck is registered as an RV even though the camper can be removed; I was told by DMV it needs to have the camper on it at least 90% of the time....seems pretty reasonable, if hard to enforce accurately.

Western Sky Ranch wrote:

100ton wrote:

ecoast wrote:
go to court with a picture of the camper on the truck and tell the judge it's an rv, and you were forced into commercial plates due to weight classification.

or pay it.

X's 2. Worth a try.

Be careful with this advice! It is not uncommon for the citing officer to photograph your vehicle proving the violation. In fact some citation machines have a camera built into them. If you go in to court with a photo of your camper on the truck and claim it's a full time RV, you're setting yourself up for a contempt of court or perjury charge when their photo shows an empty truck. These charges by the way will cost you far far more then that there ticket.

Western Sky Ranch,

I get your point. I was thinking he could do that to get his truck "relicensed" as an RV and avoid the "Commercial" issue. It was not my intent to suggest fraud.

Robert

100ton wrote:

ecoast wrote:
go to court with a picture of the camper on the truck and tell the judge it's an rv, and you were forced into commercial plates due to weight classification.

or pay it.

X's 2. Worth a try.

Be careful with this advice! It is not uncommon for the citing officer to photograph your vehicle proving the violation. In fact some citation machines have a camera built into them. If you go in to court with a photo of your camper on the truck and claim it's a full time RV, you're setting yourself up for a contempt of court or perjury charge when their photo shows an empty truck. These charges by the way will cost you far far more then that there ticket.

I say we all come down to your block and park in every possible spot for the next ten weeks honking our horns....ok just kidding.

Well I could ..............see you over the weekend.. ...

Your son.

Hey just like when I bought the Tundra, I was told I needed commercial plates. Legaly you Tundra owners are over the weight limit with your 5.7 engines....thats righ folks. So it justified buying a topper for Leer...a really nice one at that. Maybe you can re-registred it the same way?

NY DMV says that if "the truck bed is completely and permently inclosed by a camper top" it is called a modified pickup and can have passenger plates even if over 5500lb empty.

In box # 6 on form mv-82 check off "yes" the box for question #3 "has this vehicle been modified to change its registeration class"
In the "if yes explain" box write "permanently installed camper shell and camping equipment".

bobndot wrote:
HarleyB......I sent u a PM .

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A04433&term=&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y

Seems DOA? It will never pass because it makes too much sense.

btggraphix wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

btggraphix wrote:
Long Island has been doing it for a long time. Family members of mine lost their farmland in the late 40's that they had bought from the Matinicock Indians in the 1600's.....after they got surrounded by mansions (like JP Morgan's niece) and got taxed into oblivion. Can't have smelly cows next to those fine folks!

Good luck. That's pretty cra ppy.

What is the rest of the story? Did they actually "lose" the property, or did they sell it for a handsome profit? If it had been in the family since the 1600s, little chance they still owed a mortgage to the Indians. Doubt the land values fell below the 27 beads they gave the poor Indians in exchange for the property. If the land was surrounded by JP Morgan's relatives and the like, it probably had significant value. Were they so arrogant they just refused to pay the property taxes the rest of us have to pay? Did it come out that those long ago ancestors swindled the Indians and the government awarded it back to them?

Fair enough....as soon as I posted it I thought that it wouldn't add anything to the thread and make me sound like somebody I'm not....but too late. And it sure sounds like I'm one of those people carrying around a sign that I hate all taxes.

The rest of the story is they owned it for (obviously) many generations. When my mom was about 7 or 8, they were simply farming it for subsistence food and they gave horse rides, that's about it. I have seen the picture of the JP Morgan niece mansion in a book on mansions of Long Island, and in the foreground you can see the family farm. Now the "heresay" or "story" part that I have no idea of the truth of....was that ol JP thought it outrageous that these "farmers" were making money on their land and therefore they should pay more taxes and fought with the government to try to reduce the taxes for the mansion "homeowners". What of course happened instead was that Long Island RAISED the taxes on the farmers ("commercial") users of their land. So now comes the guess you made, they saw there was no way to be able to afford the taxes without earning more money from the farm....so they borrowed money to try to convert to cash crops to pay the taxes, had problems, and had to turn over the land back to the bank eventually for the back taxes or the mortgage note. The cynic in me would guess the bank was owned by JP Morgan and it all closed a nice loop successfuly and old JP probably snapped up the land for a guest house for his niece. Yeah, the inevitable was going to happen eventually I suppose...the real estate becomes worth way too much to be able to afford to farm in many places....but ol JP sure sped up the process.

I got a good laugh out of the ancestors who robbed the Matinecocks blind quote. :) They did sign with their thumbprints and all. Of course those 27 beads would probably be worth 50K now if they still had them. Is Whites robbing whites OK though? I got a particular laugh out of it because the family collected all of the arrowheads, scrapers, hatchets and other indian tools for all those generations while they were farming and when the family lost the land, they allowed the Indian museum for the Matinicocks (not sure where it is located or even that it still exists) to go through the entire collection and take everything they thought was appropriate for the museum. They felt it was the right thing to do according to my mother. They took all the best stuff from over 300 years of family farming.....things that were invaluable while they had to give up their land to the bank. The remaining bits and pieces were kept by my grandmother and then my mother. She made a little wall exhibit framed display that had the story of the farm, of the purchase from the indians, of the wording on the original deed (that included the distance to the Matinecock meeting house from the corner of the land) and a sampling of arrowheads...and gave the grandkids of the family each one of them.

So there is the "rest of the story". Take it for what you will. But it is sad when a way of life becomes unfeasible and what it does to families as that reality occurs. That particular man that lost the farm (my step-grandfather) was never the same. How would it feel to lose the 300 year old family property?

Interesting family history. Today, collecting those kind of artifacts would land you in jail. Sounds like they got caught up in the depression like so many others. The great depression had many similarities to the recent financial mess. Everyday people were speculating with borrowed money in the stock market, risking their net worth to chase more money. History has a strange way of repeating itself. BTW, JP Morgan died in 1913 so I kind of doubt he had anything to do with the taxes in the 30s and 40s.

The first two post are California and New York go figure. You need to take this opportunity to remind your family, friends, and employees that continuing to vote this country into a nanny state leads to bs laws like this.

Also if you don't like it, move, take your tax dollars else where.

I use to live in NY. If you own a truck camper you can (actually legally) change plates over to regular! Gotta look for the law, but it basically states that trucks with with recreational belongings attached must be recognized as passenger vehicle.

westernrvparkowner wrote:

btggraphix wrote:
Long Island has been doing it for a long time. Family members of mine lost their farmland in the late 40's that they had bought from the Matinicock Indians in the 1600's.....after they got surrounded by mansions (like JP Morgan's niece) and got taxed into oblivion. Can't have smelly cows next to those fine folks!

Good luck. That's pretty cra ppy.

What is the rest of the story? Did they actually "lose" the property, or did they sell it for a handsome profit? If it had been in the family since the 1600s, little chance they still owed a mortgage to the Indians. Doubt the land values fell below the 27 beads they gave the poor Indians in exchange for the property. If the land was surrounded by JP Morgan's relatives and the like, it probably had significant value. Were they so arrogant they just refused to pay the property taxes the rest of us have to pay? Did it come out that those long ago ancestors swindled the Indians and the government awarded it back to them?

Fair enough....as soon as I posted it I thought that it wouldn't add anything to the thread and make me sound like somebody I'm not....but too late. And it sure sounds like I'm one of those people carrying around a sign that I hate all taxes.

The rest of the story is they owned it for (obviously) many generations. When my mom was about 7 or 8, they were simply farming it for subsistence food and they gave horse rides, that's about it. I have seen the picture of the JP Morgan niece mansion in a book on mansions of Long Island, and in the foreground you can see the family farm. Now the "heresay" or "story" part that I have no idea of the truth of....was that ol JP thought it outrageous that these "farmers" were making money on their land and therefore they should pay more taxes and fought with the government to try to reduce the taxes for the mansion "homeowners". What of course happened instead was that Long Island RAISED the taxes on the farmers ("commercial") users of their land. So now comes the guess you made, they saw there was no way to be able to afford the taxes without earning more money from the farm....so they borrowed money to try to convert to cash crops to pay the taxes, had problems, and had to turn over the land back to the bank eventually for the back taxes or the mortgage note. The cynic in me would guess the bank was owned by JP Morgan and it all closed a nice loop successfuly and old JP probably snapped up the land for a guest house for his niece. Yeah, the inevitable was going to happen eventually I suppose...the real estate becomes worth way too much to be able to afford to farm in many places....but ol JP sure sped up the process.

I got a good laugh out of the ancestors who robbed the Matinecocks blind quote. :) They did sign with their thumbprints and all. Of course those 27 beads would probably be worth 50K now if they still had them. Is Whites robbing whites OK though? I got a particular laugh out of it because the family collected all of the arrowheads, scrapers, hatchets and other indian tools for all those generations while they were farming and when the family lost the land, they allowed the Indian museum for the Matinicocks (not sure where it is located or even that it still exists) to go through the entire collection and take everything they thought was appropriate for the museum. They felt it was the right thing to do according to my mother. They took all the best stuff from over 300 years of family farming.....things that were invaluable while they had to give up their land to the bank. The remaining bits and pieces were kept by my grandmother and then my mother. She made a little wall exhibit framed display that had the story of the farm, of the purchase from the indians, of the wording on the original deed (that included the distance to the Matinecock meeting house from the corner of the land) and a sampling of arrowheads...and gave the grandkids of the family each one of them.

So there is the "rest of the story". Take it for what you will. But it is sad when a way of life becomes unfeasible and what it does to families as that reality occurs. That particular man that lost the farm (my step-grandfather) was never the same. How would it feel to lose the 300 year old family property?