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silversand's avatar
silversand
Explorer
May 07, 2014

Rotted out under-tub Caribou 8

Just a heads-up to those with Outfitter Caribou units with wooden tub: there is some kind of very cheap furniture veneer under the entire tub glued to the floor XPS foam and aluminum beams. This has absorbed water between bed of camper and rubber bed mat, and completely rotted away. I just found it this morning. Another to-do (after I found a section of wing under battery compartment) completely rotted out on this camper last Fall. This repair will be about 20 hours this Spring. LOTS of wood on these campers. Ours is 9 years old this May.

Thank God this stuff is only cheap veneer and not structural, so I can glue a ~2 sq foot sheet of 1/16th plastic FRP to the aluminum frame and XPS. I wish could remove it all, but the glue in some places is still tenacious with veneer. Expected time of repair: ~12 hours (including a run to the hardware store, pre-prep, and clamping the new FRP section under there.

Suggested mitigation: never let your Caribou (or, wood-framed tub camper) sit directly on your truck's bed; place inorganic spacers under the tub, to elevate off truck bed, and allow air circulation !!!



S-
  • Thanks, Skip! I'll get a hold of our marina, and see if they have this material in stock. Otherwise, I will have to order it via Internet (this stuff may not be orderable by cross-border, depending on its MSDS ?).

    will still have to cut the rot out to dry sound plywood (the rot is so bad, when I dig into it, the wood just falls out on its own gravity from the underwing). was up on our roof, and it is rock solid. I planned on Geocel-ing (ProFlex) the roof seams this spring. The 3M product I have used for screw seating and fiberglass seam re-do is: 4200 seam-sealer. It is still qute flexible after ~3.7 years...

    Cheers,
    Silver-
  • Hi Silver,

    During our sailing days we used a product called WEST SYSTEM Epoxy. You can saturate wood with this very thin epoxy and it is impervious to water. I think it would be a very useful process for your problem. I know West Marine carries the stuff. Epoxy should be coated with paint or sun screen as it is subject to failure in UV when exposed to sunlight.

    Also 5200 when not exposed to sunlight should only be used when you never intend to take it apart. I don't recommend it, there are lots of better more flexible adhesives IMHO.

    WEST SYSTEM can be blended for several types of application. I also was steered to a neat product for our TC Roof. Liquid Roof is a liquid rubber product we have painted on seams. It was easy to apply and so far has stood up well. Our Lance dealer referred it to us.

    Love to all,

    skip
  • Hi Woodhog! Our "plan" was to keep this camper "for life"; this would have been another 15~20 of camping, then reconsider something more comfortable. I did some very in-depth investigation into CampLite's full aluminum line (with Azdel). VERY enticing I'll tell you. We do a lot of camping in salty marine environments, and after backing out all our screws on camper exterior, re-seating in marine adhesive, then driving back in, I had not seen any electrolysis entre the steel screws and aluminum framing. IF we sell this camper (with 100% full disclosure of repairs and findings), we will take a VERY hard look at CampLite/LivinLite 8.6 !

    Travelnutz: you ARE one of my 3 structural/materials mentors from RVnet. You have been SPOT ON with MANY (no, not many, I should say: all) structural, materials and assembly "situations" out there in RV manufacturing land. When you speak, I LISTEN 100% ! I have been EXTREMELY impressed with the newer Lance line-up (full 100% aluminum/Azdel non organic structure, with LanceLock (r). These Lance camper are very difficult to find in our region (I've only seen one 2013/14 in stock, personally: however,it was for a short-bed truck). We will look very VERY closely at any long-bed 2014 Lance units that find their way nto our region, for sure.

    Your intuition was absolutely correct on the "source" of the water! I removed my temporary under-wing patch (put there last October, after discovering the marine plywood rot under-wing (marine plywood ROTS VERY quickly, as you had warned us all years ago!): I cut all the rot out with a grinder fit with a diamond cutter, then screwed a temp "plate" over the hole till spring). It appears that water had indeed infiltrated into the battery box (steel insert) via a very cheap door design: the rubber seal around the hatch frame is actually gapped about 1 full inch at bottom, and the rubber around the hatch door spanning this gap at the bottom apparently does NOTHING to stop infiltration. Even worse, the box insert has very insufficient caulking to the hatch frame, where water infiltrates INTO the hollow aluminum framing through the end cut (and, I suspect: some screw penetrations), filling up the aluminum tube with water, and like a series of filling cups, just moves from tube to tube, spilling out FAR away from the leak region (like ~7 feet distant....so far discovered!).

    With this Travelnutz intuition, I checked the only other steel insert box on the camper (the propane steel insert), started probing this morning, and my finger went RIGHT THROUGH the under-wing plywood under the steel propane box! I probed along under the propane box access hatch (the hatch has a huge gap, too, along the bottom under the lock, where, incredibly, no rubber spans!), and my finger(!) went right through the plywood along a 4~6 inch span: completely rotted out. All this marine plywood will have to be ripped out, too (another 10~15 hours of work??), then cleaned, and epoxy, then cover. On edit: more rot under the wing! The leading edge at front of camper under driver-side jack (about 12 inches from propane box) 5 inches of it along the camper trim (water filling the aluminum tube and migratng to front corner, spilling out of aluminum beam end cut, and soaking plywood???). Jeez. From inside the camper cupboards, I can't see anything under the batter box, there is almost no gap under the battery box and camper cupboard shelf. I have to rent an flexible inspection camera, but even with that, there seems to be plywood spacers under the battery box blocking ANY avenue to inspect under the battery box. This is turning out to be a nightmare. All the wood wing could be compromised at this point on the driver-side of camper.

    Whaz:

    This is a good idea under the camper tub. I def. will consider it! Now, the problem with the wooden structure (the entire tub verticals and wings are structural wood, however I can see that the verticals are sound, but the wings may be shot with terminal cancer), that we may only have ~2 years left on this camper, maybe 3? before all the wings need to be replaced (and then again in 3, 4, 6 years?) There appears no way to replace the entire wing structure without MAJOR structural dis-assembly. Just, like a WW-II sub under attack and leaking from depth-charges, plug the holes as the rot (leaks) show up, then decide at some point to part out the camper (or sell to someone who has the desire/time/interest to repair it continually/yearly till it dies).

    Well, we have 9 good years with it thus far. maybe 2 more? For 11 years and about 100 hours of preventive maintenance over 9 years (the total lifespan of this particular camper, IF it is stored in a heated climate-controlled facility over winters since the day it is pick up brand new).
  • Hey hey Silver, that job looks like a lot of work. Sorry for your troubles. Could a sheet of aluminum be screwed to the bottom, caulked and sprayed with a bed liner material wrapping up and covering the whole tub?
  • silversand, sorry you have the problem and I know you really take good care of your stuff.

    You mentioned a rotted wing. Was that on the same side as the tub/shower bottom rot? If so, may be a leak somewhere higher up causing or had a hand in the rotting. I really can't understand why a TC manufacturer would use flimsy 1/8" wood panel cover for the bottom anywhere as it's guaranteed to get wet and having no ventilation, trapped water will always rot wood. 1/8" wood may be lite in weight but really isn't strong enough to hold even the insulation in place over time when off the truck with thermal and wind actions. The bottom of a TC should always be designed, materials used, built, and sealed against any water intrusion. Sweating from condensation under the tub/shower floor sure wouldn't help either and that's going to happen when it's warm inside and cold outside.

    Silversand, seeing your pic of the rot makes me wonder: What were they thinking and has you wondering also.
  • Silver,
    Sorry to hear about your rotting issues. Hope there are no other hidden issues when you remove the bad veneer.
  • Lance uses NO wood or other wood fiber products on their TC structures. TPO roof with Azdel under it, welded Aluminum framing, CNC cut to fit precisely closed cell foam insulation, Azdel backing and sheeting under the Filon (glass) exteriors, no wood on the bottom, one piece molded nose cone, etc. Sealed against wind, cold air intrusion, and moisture. Azdel will not absorb moisture and will not rot, is a great sound reducer/proofer and adds R-value. NO wood and no rot, period!
  • How frustrating that must be as I know you really look after your camper from reading your posts over the years...

    I go over our unit with a fine tooth comb every year and always miss potential problems, last year on a trip the Heiki hatch combing leaked.
    I had to re-bed and so far so good...
    This year when waxing I noted a light fixture that may have a very small leak, will re-caulk that completely after removal and looking inside the mounting hole...

    It is endless............

    I sometimes wonder if Camp Lite are the best solution.

    The price seems resonable and the almost wood free construction should solve this type of problem, which seems will eventually happen to all campers...

    No Rot?????

    I did note a steel jack support mounted to the Aluminum frame, how would that fare in a salty Maritime climate?