Surge protector

MOVs in surge devices degrade over time. If you have a catastrophic failure in a MOV you could be looking at a fire issue. Most of the better surge devices have a built in circuit to indicate MOV failure. True surge suppressors should be replaced after a period of time because of the MOV degradation.
Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

SoundGuy wrote:


Well here we go again, yet another of your over complicated technical replies that almost no one else will understand, or in fact even care to understand. :R The point of this discussion is that there are significant differences between so-called "simple surge protectors" and more costly EMS units that not only include surge protection but offer features designed to protect an RV from the many vagaries encountered with park power systems. How an EMS does this is of little concern to the vast majority, the only important issue being that it DOES. :B

eloquent in its simplicity. sums it up nicely, if somebody wants to cheap out, go right ahead. but don't try to convince folks that it is the smart decision. JMHO
bumpy

SoundGuy wrote:
Whether a simple surge protector or "high dollar" EMS any surge exceeding the rating of the unit will destroy the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) used to direct excessive current flow to ground.

westom wrote:
That is not what a Progressive does. Word 'surge' has numerous unrelated meanings. Some call reverse polarity a surge. Some call an undervoltage a surge. The Progressive disconnects power when some types of anomalies (surges) exist. MOVs are irrelevant to those anomalies.

Well here we go again, yet another of your over complicated technical replies that almost no one else will understand, or in fact even care to understand. :R The point of this discussion is that there are significant differences between so-called "simple surge protectors" and more costly EMS units that not only include surge protection but offer features designed to protect an RV from the many vagaries encountered with park power systems. How an EMS does this is of little concern to the vast majority, the only important issue being that it DOES. :B

Westom,

So if a 3000 Joule spike hit my 1080 Joule rated protector;
1. Would it ruin my protector?
2. Would I see any signs that told me if my protector was no long providing its 1080 Joule rated protection?

Like I said, it is handy for checking polarity, I would like to think that in addition it is providing some level of protection. If there is no way to tell, then it is little more than a feel good device.

it never fails to amaze me.
folks will spend $700 for a "smart" phone, $9,000 for full body paint, but cringe about $250 for a surge protector or $1,000 for a toad braking system.

and yes the term Surge Protector is not totally accurate but neither is scotch tape, xerox copies etc. terms that are used generically.
bumpy

rbpru wrote:
Okay thanks, that is what I wanted to know. If a surge pops the MOVs, the unit will no longer work.

MOVs can pop. Progressive protective functions still operate.

MOVs (even in completely different devices called protectors) must never pop. That is an unacceptable (catastrophic) failure even described on page one of MOV datasheets. MOVs must be designed into a protector so that MOVs disconnect; and all other items (protector circuits, interior appliances, etc) remain connected to AC power.

Described are MOVs that will only absorb 360 joules and never more than 720 joules. All appliances make such tiny surges irrelevant. Protection inside every appliance is more robust. Those joules are doing near zero protection - especially from potentially destructive surges that can be tens or hundreds of thousands of joules. But that is a rare anomaly. How often is a home dishwasher and dimmer switches replaced every year?

Reverse polarity can even be reported by a $6 three light tester. Floating ground may also be detected. But let's be clear about this. That tester can only report defects. It cannot report good wiring. And it can do nothing (fast enough) to avert damage.

Faults that cause concern can happen at any time. A Progressive, et al type protector will (must) disconnect fast enough to avert damage. And remain disconnected until the anomaly is corrected. No manual testers can perform that essential function.

Nothing can disconnect from lightning (and other similar anomalies) fast enough. But those anomalies are quite rare. Frequent type anomalies are what Progressive, et al devices protect from - by disconnecting AC power.

Okay thanks, that is what I wanted to know. If a surge pops the MOVs, the unit will no longer work.

I have one of the less expensive units that I use to check for proper wiring. It is rated for 1080 Joules. When I use it I often wondered how I would know if it was still working.

If I was only worried about polarity I could check that at my outside 120 volt outlet with a $10.00 gizmo from Home Depot.

I will say the little Camco unit is the simplest to use, but the power box door will not close completely.

SoundGuy wrote:
Whether a simple surge protector or "high dollar" EMS any surge exceeding the rating of the unit will destroy the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) used to direct excessive current flow to ground.

That is not what a Progressive does. Word 'surge' has numerous unrelated meanings. Some call reverse polarity a surge. Some call an undervoltage a surge. The Progressive disconnects power when some types of anomalies (surges) exist. MOVs are irrelevant to those anomalies.

Nothing can report on MOV states (good or failed). Normal MOV failure (degradation) is not detected. Catastrophic (completely unacceptable) failure sometimes (might be) reported.

Protector MOVs are ineffective for that other type of surge if not mounted on (attached at) the pole. If mounted inside, it is too far from earth to be effective. MOV type protection is not effective by disconnecting power.

Surges such as lightning (or created by stray cars, tree rodents, etc) are irrelevant to typical campground protectors. AC anomalies such as overvoltage, floating ground, reverse polarity, etc are its concern. Protection from this type of surge is to disconnect. Obviously, MOVs cannot do what Progressive type protectors as designed to protect from.

"Electrical problems at CGs are often the result of poorly maintained electrical systems and components, if they even get maintained at all." That is what a campground protector addresses. Completely different from sometime, also called a surge protector, does for homes. Expression 'surge protector' defines many completely different and unrelated devices. Discussion must detail each separate function since all those devices, call protectors, are so different.

I'd guess that PI wants the portable units returned because they need to be properly sealed for outside usage.

rbpru wrote:
I still have yet to have anyone tell me how they know their surge protector worked or is still working.

I know some of the high dollar units will tell you, about high and low voltage but do they kick out when a surge occurs or what?

On two separate occasions I wills say my TRC "worked" that I know of. Once it shut off due to low voltage. It was a crowded, older CG in Texas. Since I noticed it shut the trailer off, I went out to the pedestal with my little plug in meter and plugged it in at the ped.
Voltage was around 100V. I just unplugged for the rest of the afternoon, and switched my fridge to propane.

On one other occasion, there was a storm pretty far in the distance at night. Far enough I could see the flashes of lightning, but could not hear the thunder. I am "guessing" here, but with one flash of lightning, the TRC shut the trailer off. My guess is it saw a spike on the line, but that's all it is...a guess. Could have been coincidence. That time, again, I just went out and disconnected and left it unplugged overnight since the forecast was for storms. Again, I have no idea if that was really what caused it to trip out, and further, I have no idea if that if it was a spike, would have hurt anything or not, had I not had the TRC in the line.

Again though, as I and several others have said in this thread, the "people safety" aspect of this device makes it worth it to me. They are only $300 or so....that's cheap in my mind for a safety device that could save you from a shock.

So to answer the question, mine has shut off for a couple of the reasons it's supposed to, and still goes thru a normal start-up procedure when I plug it in. So I'd say "it's working".