Surge Protectors?

westom wrote:
Unfortunately many replace logic with speculation - ie that a Progressive protector does what a power strip protector does. That is classic junk science reasoning. Completely different devices (with a same name) are for completely different anomalies.

And just who are these "many"? :h I've read every post in this thread carefully and don't see where anyone has in any way compared a Progressive Industries EMS to a power strip protector. Unfortunately your persistence in pursuing this nonsensical argument serves only to further confuse the issue and dissuade those potentially interested from investing in an EMS designed specifically for recreational vehicle use without having any idea why, other than your diatribe about "junk science reasoning". If you personally don't agree that's fine but let others make the decision for themselves what they want to believe.

SoundGuy wrote:
Not all anomalies have anything to do with surges or spikes at all ... some are wiring errors, some are errors that occur because of deteriorating equipment, some are errors because source power coming into the park either fails or ranges out of spec.

Unfortunately the word 'surge' commonly describes all those anomalies. Wiring faults create surges. Lightning creates surges. Low current is even called a surge. All are electrically different. All are averted by completely different devices. All still have the same name - a surge.

A surge protector for a camper does not address what a surge protector in an Asus (computer) motherboard protects from. Neither are for surges that may be incoming to a home.

Surges that a Progressive may protect from are not surges that many fear inside their home. Completely different anomalies require completely different devices - all called surge protectors.

A campground protector not adjacent to a pole (away from a camper) cannot protect electronics as another has only assumed. Each protector is define for different anomalies. A home protector is not for anomalies typically found in campgrounds. All are for completely different anomalies. All have a same name: surge protector.

A typical Progressive protector is for anomalies that mostly put motorized appliances at risk. Unfortunately he 'assumed' it is for what a home protector does only because both have a same name: surge protector. Numbers define two completely different anomalies - both called surges. What numbers define an anomaly that threatens electronics? An anomaly is defined quantitatively (not qualitatively) before discussing a solution.

Most of this is layman simple. Unfortunately many replace logic with speculation - ie that a Progressive protector does what a power strip protector does. That is classic junk science reasoning. Completely different devices (with a same name) are for completely different anomalies.

To get directly back to the OP's question, "if I should be or are they a waste of money?"

Yes you should.

You have invested a sizeable amount into your RV. If your camper were to get hit with a power anomaly, it could potentially damage the electronics in your camper.

Just like a surge protector in your home, you may be using for your computer or some other electrical device, you want to protect your financial investment as much as possible.

Consider the cost of replacing the electronic devices inside your camper, if for some reason they should get "fried"? How much would all that cost? Oh, you may get some reimbursement from your insurance, but you still have the disappointment of having your camper out of commission too, not to mention the cost of your deductible, provided you have insurance and your insurance covers an event like this.

For the small cost of a protector vs the cost of replacing electronics in your camper .. well ... you do the math!

Next part of your question?

Waste of money?

They are only a waste of money if you DON'T use them and you have one. If you have one, keep it plugged in anytime you are attached to shore power, at home, camping, or in storage. If you don't keep them plugged in when on shore power, then, yes... it's a waste of money.

westom wrote:
Numerous and completely different anomalies exist. All are called surges. No protector protects from all anomalies. A discussion that does not define each anomaly separately is subjective; classic junk science reasoning.

Not all anomalies have anything to do with surges or spikes at all ... some are wiring errors, some are errors that occur because of deteriorating equipment, some are errors because source power coming into the park either fails or ranges out of spec. Of course no one single device will protect from everything, particularly nearby lighting strikes, but that nevertheless doesn't mean a device such as a TRC or Progressive Industries EMS isn't a valuable addition that can effectively protect from many line errors. As for defining "each anomaly separately" leave that to the techies, which very few campers are ... they just want to plug in with an EMS in the line with the confidence they've reasonably done what they can to protect their rig's electrical system, no other explanations needed. Diatribes like yours claiming "junk science" only confuse and turn others off from the important message - you're better off with an EMS than without.

rbpru wrote:
You never know if a surge protector is working, unless the surge is large enough to take it out.

Of the many dozens of campgrounds I have stayed in only two would not accept a surge protector even though the protector show the connection was safe as the circuit breaker tripped. In both cases the circuits worked fine.

Yes, if a surge protector does it job, then one never knew that one anomaly exists. Which is a completely different and unrelated anomaly for what a surge protector (that is discussed here) is installed to protect from.

Numerous and completely different anomalies exist. All are called surges. No protector protects from all anomalies. A discussion that does not define each anomaly separately is subjective; classic junk science reasoning.

That surge protector would not work in two campgrounds due to what that surge protector is designed to protect from. At greatest risk to that anomaly are motorized appliances - not electronics.

A completely different type surge (that often threatens electronics) uses a protector that would always 'be accepted' (even if that campground was defectively wired (a threat to motorized appliances).

Another type of protector that would protect electronics from a completely different anomaly (also called a surge) must connect as close as possible to the pole and as far a possible from appliances.

Not all Progressive protectors claim to protect from a surge such as lightning. But most (probably every one) is designed to protect appliances from wiring faults that are typical in campgrounds. Those protectors would not permit power due to defects ... while power would appear to be good when connected without the Progressive. In that case, a Progressive detected a fault that puts at risk motorized appliances or human life. So one connected direct; decided to ignore an anomaly that the Progressive is designed to detect and reported.

Bottom line: if each anomaly is not discussed separately, well, many recommend using or promote junk science reasoning. Some completely different anomalies include, floating neutral, RFI/EMI/EMC, high voltage, a massive longitudinal current spike, missing earth ground, frequency variation, low voltage, defective safety ground, harmonics, and reverse polarity. Which anomaly concerns you? Different protectors are designed to only protect from a short list of 'surges'.

Most appliances are so robust as to make many anomalies completely or partially irrelevant. An appliances can work fine even though a serious anomaly exists. To say which protectors work and why a protector is recommended must be discussed in terms of each anomaly. Otherwise that recommendation is based in classic junk science reasoning.

Campground could have a completely defective safety ground. A Progressive might refuse to connect to that defective campground power. But appliances would work just fine when connected directly. Another surge protector (designed for completely different anomalies) would not report that defect. Each protector must be discussed in terms of each anomaly - one at a time.

It is unlikely that the PI unit would have protected you.

jerseyjim wrote:
In 20+ years of camping, never needed one. Then...about 5 years ago, a nearby lightening strike fried the fridge and damaged the inverter.
1400 bucks. I now have a 50 amp Progressive Industries electrical management unit. Better than a surge protector, too.
.

hbrady wrote:
Experienced a few power issues last year so I'm buying one before an expensive repair is needed. I've been looking at the CAMPCO 55301, it's about $60 less than Progressive unit BUT, it attaches at the post which means it's ripe for sticky fingers to pick. Now I'm rethinking my choice :R

If you have a 30A extension, you can always just use it at the trailer.
But I highly recommend the Progressive over the others as it has a lifetime warranty. I don't believe any of the others even come close.
The EMS-PT30C has all the protections/features of the hardwired unit and when it interrupts, it'll show the error that caused it.

SoundGuy wrote:
... My advice - once you decide an EMS is worth the investment don't penny pinch. ;)

Pics of my own Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C are in my gallery for anyone interested.

Point made, just ordered my Progressive unit :C

hbrady wrote:
Experienced a few power issues last year so I'm buying one before an expensive repair is needed. I've been looking at the CAMPCO 55301, it's about $60 less than Progressive unit BUT, it attaches at the post which means it's ripe for sticky fingers to pick. Now I'm rethinking my choice :R

The Camco units like those from TRC carry a one year warranty, those from Progressive Industries carry a lifetime warranty. If you have a Progressive portable unit that fails you have to ship the unit to them for repair or replacement but if you have hard wire unit you can field repair it yourself with parts that Progressive will mail to you via USPS. Delay for the portable versions is fixed at 136", delay for the hard wire versions can be set for either 15" for convenience or 136" to protect an A/C unit which doesn't have built in delay. Since the hard wire unit is also field serviceable it's also possible to re-calibrate it against a DVM of known calibration - exactly what I did with my own unit which was set ~ 1.5 volts higher than it should have been. My advice - once you decide an EMS is worth the investment don't penny pinch. ;)

Pics of my own Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C are in my gallery for anyone interested.

Experienced a few power issues last year so I'm buying one before an expensive repair is needed. I've been looking at the CAMPCO 55301, it's about $60 less than Progressive unit BUT, it attaches at the post which means it's ripe for sticky fingers to pick. Now I'm rethinking my choice :R