TC Options for My F250

If you are looking to stay under published GVWR, you are looking at campers about 2500 lbs when filled and loaded. If you are looking at staying under published RAWR, it’s closer to 3000 lbs. if you are willing to use OEM component ratings, you have more choices if you update suspension and wheels.

How much weight you have registered on your tags takes care of legality but civil suites don’t follow laws. You will have to decide based on your risk aversion level.

I'm not sure You guys are even talking about my questions. Can we stay focused? Thanks.

jimh425 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
How many of them can get on the road without anti-sway bar?
From top of my head, my dually has 30k rating for 5th wheel, but only 22k for bumper pull.

So, somehow, the Mercedes ML that has a max tow rating of 7200 is better. Kind of fuzzy math. Your poor little truck only has 3 times the bumper tow rating of the vehicle you called perfect ... obviously, you are just using some new math or new logic. I’m not sure why you are surprised that the bumper pull number is lower. For the record, the front axle payload of a Mercedes ML isn’t usable towing, either.

You should read up on what a weight distribution hitch does if you think the Mercedes shouldn’t use one when they tow at max rating with a long TT. On the other hand, visit the TT forum to find out if a WD hitch is absolutely required by large trucks with a 7000 lb trailer. Or, just take my word for it, they aren’t.

As far as wheelbase goes, if it was just that ... again how is the Mercedes ML better. It’s probably no more than 2/3 of the wheelbase of a crew cab SRW or DRW long bed.

I think the point Keyteg1 is trying to make is towing a bumper pull with current trucks places the hitch about 4’ to as much as 5’ behind the axle. If you look at the picture the Mercedes has the axle very near the rear of the vehicle. Ford built a F350 Camper Special in the 70’s that had the rear axle very near the rear, and the spare was carried in a side panel on the outside of the bed.

Kayteg1 wrote:
How many of them can get on the road without anti-sway bar?
From top of my head, my dually has 30k rating for 5th wheel, but only 22k for bumper pull.

So, somehow, the Mercedes ML that has a max tow rating of 7200 is better. Kind of fuzzy math. Your poor little truck only has 3 times the bumper tow rating of the vehicle you called perfect ... obviously, you are just using some new math or new logic. I’m not sure why you are surprised that the bumper pull number is lower. For the record, the front axle payload of a Mercedes ML isn’t usable towing, either.

You should read up on what a weight distribution hitch does if you think the Mercedes shouldn’t use one when they tow at max rating with a long TT. On the other hand, visit the TT forum to find out if a WD hitch is absolutely required by large trucks with a 7000 lb trailer. Or, just take my word for it, they aren’t.

As far as wheelbase goes, if it was just that ... again how is the Mercedes ML better. It’s probably no more than 2/3 of the wheelbase of a crew cab SRW or DRW long bed.

All the BS aside, next time on the road, start paying attention and come back with % of US build pickups who pull heavy trailers without WD bars?
How many of them can get on the road without anti-sway bar?
From top of my head, my dually has 30k rating for 5th wheel, but only 22k for bumper pull.
Its not HP and not brakes that limit bumper pull.
The rear overhang also limits use of the pickup for TC.
When you compare axle ratings for F250, depends on the MY you will have +- 1500 lb of payload for front and 3500 for the rear.
But due to big rear overhang, the front axle payload is not usable with TC.
I said it before and I say it again. US-build pickup up to 450/4500 class are build with grocery getting in mind.
Takes F550 (or commercial C&C) to have bigger wheelbase.

Kayteg1 wrote:
Lot of conflicting statements you made twodownzero.
Not splitting the hairs, US-build trucks are the lousiest design for ball hitch trailering.
With ball 4 or even 5 feet behind rear axle- they tend to sway a lot and sag even under 1000 lb tongue weight.
Good TV is one with minimal overhang. Look at tow truck, or from what you see on the road, Mercedes ML are perfect for the job.

I'm not sure I could even measure the sag of my truck with 1000 pounds of tongue weight. It's not zero, but not much more than that, either. 1000 pounds is approximately 1/3 of the payload rating.

I wasn't saying that a ball hitch trailer is ideal--far from that. But 3/4 ton trucks have enough GVWR for even the largest ball hitch trailers. They do not have enough for larger 5ers or most hard side truck campers. There are plenty of nice 28' 5ers that they can pull within ratings and there are a few lighter truck campers that might make the cut, depending on UVW.

Kayteg1 wrote:
Good TV is one with minimal overhang. Look at tow truck, or from what you see on the road, Mercedes ML are perfect for the job.

Can’t be anything but a troll. I don’t believe you think a Mercedes ML are perfect TV. There are far too many other vehicles much better including virtually any 1/2 ton or larger truck.

Lot of conflicting statements you made twodownzero.
Not splitting the hairs, US-build trucks are the lousiest design for ball hitch trailering.
With ball 4 or even 5 feet behind rear axle- they tend to sway a lot and sag even under 1000 lb tongue weight.
Good TV is one with minimal overhang. Look at tow truck, or from what you see on the road, Mercedes ML are perfect for the job.

Kayteg1 wrote:

twodownzero wrote:
.... I would ignore anyone who says gvwr doesn't matter. It is all that matters.

I'd fully agree if you could find engineered GVWR.
All the numbers available to the owners are taxable numbers and have nothing to do with engineering.
That is why we are forced to talk about axle rating, not taxes.

Just because the manufacturers do not publish the methodology for their GVWR does not mean that it isn't based on engineering.

I find it amusing that people talk about the axle being rated for more without any data to support that contention. I recently read an article online that indicated that the AAM 11.5" axle in GM trucks has a .250" wall axle tube on SRW applications and a .500" wall thickness on DRW. My 40 year old truck has a 14 bolt 10.5" with .500" wall tubes; the newer trucks have 3.5" or 4" axle tubes depending. I don't think anyone would doubt that the new trucks are tougher than ever, but 40 years ago, a 3/4 ton truck had an ~8,600 lb. GVWR whereas today they are generally 10k and the 1 ton SRW GVWRs are also up 20+%, thanks to the newer 18" tires that have higher ratings.

Trucks don't have to just support the weight and stop it, but also handle their load in unpredictable and dynamic road conditions. Considering the load the newer trucks are capable of, I'm surprised that many newer trucks do not have rear anti-sway bars.

New pickups have bigger brakes and more power than ever, making it tempting to load them way beyond their ratings because the performance is SO much better than it was when I started driving and towing. I can't say I'm not tempted myself. But it's hard to predict all of the consequences of overloading a truck and the manufacturers are simply in the best position to do that.

19.5 tires are plenty durable and of course made for the weight we all want to carry but their tread designs are more focused on stability than traction and the stiff carcass does the same thing. They are heavier and harder on suspension components. Tires are the weakest link, so I understand the sentiment, but I've concluded that for me, if I get to the point that E rated tires will no longer support the load I'm carrying, I will switch to a DRW truck and use 6 of them instead of 4.

We all know that the parts are engineered with a safety factor. Some are comfortable eating into it; I am not. Weigh your load, be careful how you load your rig, and drive carefully! Your life or anyone else on the roadway could depend on it.

The simplest advice regarding hard side truck campers and 3/4 ton trucks is to just not do it. The same is true of most 30+ foot 5th wheels. These loads do not belong on 3/4 ton trucks. 3/4 ton trucks are ideal for ball hitch trailering, even with the largest of ball hitch trailers. They lack the payload necessary for bigger 5th wheels and all but the smallest truck campers.

The truck camper companies all lie about how much their campers weigh; my 815 was over 3,000 pounds when I loaded it up and took off for a week long trip in it. Then on the same trip I saw a slideout Lance on an F250. Care to guess how overloaded that was? I bet by close to 30% of his payload capacity. No jury is ever going to think that is safe.

Don't think 18" tires come with high load ratings, that's is why those who used SRW for heavy campers had to upgrade to 19.5" wheels.
Coming to legal part, is your truck register as private vehicle or as commercial one?
In most of the states it is commercial registration and law require driving via DOT scales. Nobody does that with camper on and it is not reinforced, but again, we are talking legal. Than depends on the state, some DOT scales say vehicles above 11k weight, some 20k and so on.
Some states like California do have weight stickers, who in big size are displayed on side of truck. When DOT doesn't mind to register 1-ton truck for 30-40,000 lb GCWR, the tickets for underpaying the registration are pretty hefty.
Suppose only some Canada provinces actually weight pickups, but unheard in USA.
In the past I was using F450 flatbed for equipment hauling.
Only time DOT officer put me on portable scales was in Montana. He evidently was bored.