They call it an electric turbocharger

Are you the same guy who just didn't get it on a conversion to electric
radiator fans?

If not, then you should meet that guy...you two have lots in common...

That guy didn't get that by the time and expense to build an electric
fan system comparable to the OEM fan clutch system...that the engine
bay would NOT have enough room for the ICE (diesel or gasser) and if he
did...the front end would be over a 1,000 pounds heavier to bring the
front end down onto the front axle bump stops...or buy an after market
kit.

Told that guy to go ahead and buy that kit and report back after towing
heavy in some tough ambients (high temp, altitude, humidity, incline, etc)

That was for a full sized TV with a diesel ICE

This topic is about small cars. The approx 100 HP, 12VDC electric
motor would weigh in around 1,000 lbs too. 500 MCM gauged wire (two
runs) and still have room for the ICE

Any acceleration potential that electric turbo would be negated by
the added weight, power drain on the humongo alternator, twin runs
of 500 MCM wire, etc

Gotta be a troll...

I would assume that much power would be at 400 volts similar to an electric vehicle.
Probably a high voltage alternator to match.

Using those links I get HP estimates for 700cfm at 1 atmosphere of boost that range from 26 hp to 56 hp. ( is the about the requirements for a 5 liter engine?)

Using the lowest hp figure we get 18685 watts at 12 volts we're at 1557 amps. 48 volts it's down to about 389 amps that is still a large cabling problem even if the actual power wasn't a problem.

The designers of this electric turbocharger must have a secret they aren't telling me. :B

Your first post had a description such as, '10's of HP to well over 100 HP'.

Are my figures in the range that you would expect. And what kind of boost in HP would you expect from a 2.5 liter 6 cylinder engine with 700 cfm at one atmosphere available?

The reason I was interested in finding the power used thy a forced induction system is trying to determine how much power is actually needed by a electric supercharger.

I already gave you that answer in my first post. What more do you want?

If you want to see it worked out mathematically by a bunch of braineacks go here.

Here is some more reading on the subject.

Now are you going to believe these ^^^^^^^ guys?

Or this guy? :B

rjstractor wrote:
snip...

There are about a million hybrid cars on the road right now that have all these issues and apparently the car designers pretty much have it figured it out. The motor for an electric supercharger would have a high current draw, but probably nowhere near the 20KW+ of the electric traction motor that hybrids use. I don't see the electric supercharger being used to force feed a big, high performance engine but rather a small, efficient engine in an economy car.

Yup, you are correct...but they don't use capacitor batteries

They use Lithium Ion batteries. Tesla uses thousands of AA's in each
of their vehicles...until their new battery plant gets on line. Then
a custom Li-Ion. Zero Motor cycles uses a custom and one of the best
I've had the opportunity to view specifications on. Both are local
to me and know their staff engineers

Their problem is in the charge and regenerative braking area for both
Li-Ion and capacitor batteries. More so with capacitor batteries

Charge too quickly to shorten the Li-Ion battery life span. The shock
to start the chemical change, charge level and the trickle so important
to longevity

Regenerative braking will have the Li-Ion batteries only take in only
so quickly. That can be mitigated by increasing the numbers of batteries
to increase the capacity, but then the space/weight/etc issues comes
in.

The mechanical (friction material to disc) is a MUST for the current
battery IP. They will always be there as a just in case when they
figure the charge/regen-braking out.


The inrush and draw for any hybrid will depend on the right foot's
rate of change and ultimate stroke of the throttle. Also whether
an AC motor or DC motor. For this turbo think only a DC will do for
now, or until they figure out a lower cost controller/inverter to us
an AC motor

That is the 'worst' case for the designers of this electric turbo

Then the rate of change spec'd out for the boost all the way up to
the max boost. Factored by the ICE's CFM demands at whatever boost
is being discussed. My guess is that it has be VERY quick to full
RPM on that turbo.

Plus by definition of a 'hybrid', there is an ICE involved that is
also contributing to the acceleration of the vehicle that that article
did not mention. That article leads me to believe they are talking
about a pure ICE powered vehicle



Forced induction has a lot of dependencies that must be factored in

What type of ICE

Displacement

Weighting on 'performance'. Raw get up and go power, or MPG higher
importance?



Towing heavy is one of the most demanding and toughest vehicle applications

Many try to compare racing of all kinds as tougher or equal...maybe
in some instances, but most racers of any kind does not have several
tons hooked up with high throttle settings or at WOT for hours/days on end

I'm no engineer, but I do know there is no such thing as free energy. Any forced induction system requires energy to do it's thing whether it's an engine driven supercharger, and electric supercharger or a turbocharger. Efficiency can be gained by capturing energy that otherwise be wasted as heat, which I suppose a turbocharger does indirectly by using exhaust gas to drive the turbine. An electric supercharger could do the same if coupled with a hybrid drive system by using electricity generated in braking. Of course this adds complexity and expense, but if coupled to an existing hybrid this would be minimal. A small electric-supercharged hybrid diesel car (like a Prius with a 1.2L diesel) could possibly approach 80-90 mpg. Of course like most hybrids it would be about as exciting to drive as stirring a bucket of paint! :)

RJStractor

That makes sense to me. I am guessing, wouldn't the capacitors roll be to supplement the Battery on the electric motor start up. Or periods of short term demand for large bursts of power.

I am having a hard time finding the parasitic power loss caused by ahe turbocharger. Some say it's powered by free energy. I find that hard to believe.

Then I have read that the centrifugal supercharger is the most efficient of the force induction systems.

Most efficient forced air system.

The reason I was interested in finding the power used thy a forced induction system is trying to determine how much power is actually needed by a electric supercharger.

BenK wrote:

Turn it on a motor and it will +100% throttle (that + is dependent on the motor
rated voltage vs what the capacitor battery can provide). That + means
that if the voltage provided is more than the motor is rated for, it
WILL go faster and have more power than it is rated for...but the duty
cycle will then drop off a cliff...

To regenerate...it want is ALL NOW and will skid the tires

The controllers for capacitor batteries is one tough controller to design and
most likely EXPENSIVE

The key is the ability to very, very quickly turn on/off and vary the voltage
going out/in at very high current levels ***SMOOOOOTHLY***

There are about a million hybrid cars on the road right now that have all these issues and apparently the car designers pretty much have it figured it out. The motor for an electric supercharger would have a high current draw, but probably nowhere near the 20KW+ of the electric traction motor that hybrids use. I don't see the electric supercharger being used to force feed a big, high performance engine but rather a small, efficient engine in an economy car.

I've seen electric forced air cooling on diesels but not intakes. Do you have any links?

Electric forced air intake has been used for some time in industrial size diesel generators.