Timed vs inertia brake controllers

BenK wrote:
how I've noodled this before deciding on the P3...

True proportional braking using 'real time' feedback/sense...the inertia
sensor

Proportional after or above the preset gain

Proportional because the inertia sensor senses rates of change and
the harder the trailer brakes decelerate, the more the P3 will tell
the trailer brakes to brake (voltage)

Since the GM TV brake pedal switch is so nifty, it switches over with
less than 0.010" movement.

That means the brake controller will tell the trailer brakes to initiate
before the TV MC ever develops PSI. Meaning my P3 will have the trailer
brakes initiated before the integrated MC PSI sensed and after market
MC PSI sensed

Can take my P3 out of my Suburban and install it in anyother TV that
has the harness (compatible). Can't do that with any MC PSI sensed,
both after market and 'highly integrated'

Saw how the after market MC PSI sensed HOW2 video and telling to me
on their engineering fastidiousness or lack of it. To have the added
'T' and the stub line to the PSI sensor unsupported in a cantilevered
position on a high vibration application so telling...to have me wonder
what about the rest of their design/designers ??? Oh, they don't
instruct to bleed all the way down to the two corners of 'that' MC
line that was opened. Also telling on the fastidiousness of those
who say not needed and just bleed the stub line...

If my P3 goes south...nothing else is dragged south with it. Since
life time warranty, can get a new one just about anywhere and if not,
then buy another to then send the unit & new receipt for warranty coverage

There is a new thread where a guy hooked up a scope and found that
the signal to the trailer brakes is PWM...not a stretch to see that
there are lots of things that can be with that PWM signal... Yes, am
a designer and have lots of PCB design experience...

One down side is that it looks like after market, but since I keep my
vehicles forever, will be making a wooden center console and then
integrate the P3 into that.

Price is NOT a major consideration for this kind of safety system
but nice to find my P3 on sale for a fraction of the MC PSI sensed
after market units




PS...I've never installed nor driven a trailer brake controller that
used MC PSI sense...but an good in noodling how they work. Pure logic
flow or truth table diagrams in my mind married with the forensic's or
call it failure modes in my mind :)




PPS...looked at the Jordan when it first came out and the spec's seemed
wonderful and actually considered one

But, after seeing how the wire is mounted, where, etc decided that was
had a risk of getting snagged or bent. Plus a moving part, so a wear
point for both the wire length and whatever is inside the unit sensing
wire movement. Asked if there was a rate of change and the guy didn't
know what that meant...cinched it for me back then




PPPS...About the proportional braking of a MC PSI sensed and then
note to them that it is only proportional to the MC PSI, not the rate of change of the TV/Trailer

Or that an inertia sensed does that and dynamically too boot all the
while never developing any MC PSI

Or that when my TV's brakes are told to initiate...gets up to temp to
then 'haul @ss' down in speed...the inertia sensed will see that and
if not up to full voltage...will up the voltage to match

Often will have to let up on the TV's brake pedal to reduce MC PSI
and the inertia sensor will continue to apply high voltage to the trailer
brakes...a MC Sensed will reduce trailer braking because the MC PSI
has been reduced or removed all together...my P3 will continue to brake
the trailer in that condition

:R

Yawn..

OK, BenK as usual BLASTS EVERYTHING that is BETTER than his P3 with half truths and plain baloney.

The Jordan Ultima uses a HARMLESS aircraft grade stainless steel cable which connects to a SPRING LOADED ball mount. The ball mount sits in a cradle which is mounted to the top of your brake pedal.

If for ANY REASON the cable ever jammed the spring loaded ball mount simply gives and allows for full brake pedal movement.

It is pure genus in simplicity in how it works.

The Jordan Ultima is unbelievably simple to operate.

There is no "boost" settings to have to fuss with.

There is no special mounting directions and can be mounted upside down if you wanted to.

Once you have the cradle mount installed, set the cable length there is nothing else to do except to set the max output current which is ONE KNOB.

Operation is dead simple, once the max current has been set you simply DRIVE. If you find the brakes are a bit to aggressive you simply back off the current until you get the action you want. Not enough brake and simply turn it up until you are satisfied.

Basically myself once I set it I never had to touch the setting again until I changed trailers (TT to flatbed trailer).

BenK and many others took issue with the Jordan Ultima because you can't have a good working controller that is THAT simple to use.

You just can't reason with some people...

The P3 has several "vulnerabilities", one is it RELIES one the BRAKE LIGHT to signal operation. The brake light signal in most vehicles does not come directly from the brake pedal switch.

Instead comes from the Body module or computer which MONITORS the brake switch. The circuit often used to trigger the brake controller is the third brake light. This is a fuses circuit and folks HAVE had the third brake light fuse BLOW.

To me that is a HAZARD waiting to happen since the entire operation of the P3 REQUIRES getting the brake light signal and you can have the brake light fuse blow and NEVER know it.

Next vulnerability is off axis operation of the P3, ideally the controller needs to be SQUARE with the front direction of said vehicle. The further off axis the larger chance of ERRORS happening.

So what happens during a slide event? I personally did not want to take that chance but I don't think the controller will be able to function correctly under that condition.

Next vulnerability, the P3 uses a lot of computer calculations to COVER UP and HIDE any ERRORS. Yep, that is what the BOOST settings are all about... So, if you are attempting to park you have to remember to change the boost to a different setting from what you would use out on the highway and any other changes in your driving speed or habits and you may find yourself making adjustments .

As far as IBC controllers, while I am not a big fan of ahving to make a trip to a vehicle dealer to get it fixed I must say that they work great in fact just as good as my Jordan Ultima (which DOES work better than any inertia controller). The manufacturers of vehicles that include IBCs over the years seem to have ironed out the initial problems and I have not seen any complaints posted for the last 5 yrs or better.

I will also toss in a new comer to brake controllers that BenK can rip on.. It is called Direclink and it interfaces to your vehicle via the OBD2 connector of your vehicle. It "reads" the data on the diagnostics port and uses that to apply the trailer brakes.

It "satisfies BenKs "demands" for easy connection, not connection to the brake pedal, nor to the MC.. Rip away BenK..

DIRECLINK CLICKY LINK