Hello,We are buying a trailer for our daughter and son-in-law. They now have a Ford Expedition with 8,900# tow rating. 80% of that is 7,120#, but they should stay below 7,000# loaded (5,500 to 6,000# UVW) because there is an 895# tongue weight rating. The Expy has a GVWR of 7,100, so the full 895# is available with fuel, oil, pax and baggage. I bought a Sherline so we can test to load between 12% and 13% for tongue weight. We also have a new Equalizer 10,000/1,000 hitch.Question: Is the 895# rating when loaded with the Eq. hitch or unloaded? With the Eq. hitch in place, the load on the Expy is about 80% and 20% is shifted to the trailer dual axles.Thanks from a trailer "newbie,"Crespro

How much does the Expedition weigh loaded for travel?Subtract that from the Expedition's GVWR and you'll know if it has the capacity.Yes, you need to get it weighed...

Crespro wrote:Question: Is the 895# rating when loaded with the Eq. hitch or unloaded?---For the 2006 Expedition:The 895# maximum tongue weight rating for the receiver applies when you are using a weight distribution hitch.If not using a WDH, the maximum tongue weight rating is limited to 600#.Ron

Ron Gratz wrote:Crespro wrote:Question: Is the 895# rating when loaded with the Eq. hitch or unloaded?---For the 2006 Expedition:The 895# maximum tongue weight applies when you are using a weight distribution hitch.If not using a WDH, the maximum tongue weight is limited to 600#.RonAin't it amazing how the WDH rated tongue weight is almost exactly 10% of towing capacity. Seems its that way on most all Fords.

sch911 wrote:How much does the Expedition weigh loaded for travel?Subtract that from the Expedition's GVWR and you'll know if it has the capacity.Yes, you need to get it weighed...We will weigh it. For now, UVW of 5,700, passengers of 350, fuel and oil of 180, baggage of 150, tongue weight 80% of 895=720 for a total of 7,100#. While I am in a 33K motorhome and not a TT, it seems to me that you would want the TV to be close to GVWR. Heavy vehicles ride better and are more stable in the wind.

Terryallan wrote:Ron Gratz wrote:Crespro wrote:Question: Is the 895# rating when loaded with the Eq. hitch or unloaded?---For the 2006 Expedition:The 895# maximum tongue weight applies when you are using a weight distribution hitch.If not using a WDH, the maximum tongue weight is limited to 600#.RonAin't it amazing how the WDH rated tongue weight is almost exactly 10% of towing capacity. Seems its that way on most all Fords.I have two ways to measure. We can use the Sherline and measure the freestanding tongue weight of 895#. Alternatively, we can use a CAT scale to weigh the Expy with and without the trailer. With that method, the tongue weight with the Eq. hitch should be 80% of 895# or 720#.Which is the Ford engineer using?CresproP.S. If the regular tow rating is 6,000 and the regular hitch rating is 10% or 600# tongue weight, then it is consistent for the tow package weight distribution rating to use the same method. If this is consistent, then the CAT scale method should be correct. The 895# is the actual weight carried by the TV.

Tongue Weight Rating | Good Sam Community

94 Replies

waynec1957
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
Crespro wrote:
Great discussion on tongue weight. I appreciate all the expertise.

Report on the travel trailer -- we bought a 2006 Wildwood 23BH2L. It is 27'6" from the back bumper to the hitch and has two slides.

I think that it will be about 6,400# at camping weight and we plan for a tongue weight of about 830#. This should be comfortably within the GCVR, the GVWR, the tow capacity, the tongue weight, the rear axle weight, the GVWR of the trailer and we hope for a 13% tongue weight. I have six washers on the Equalizer, but may reduce that to five after we have it weighed at the CAT scale with full gear.

On the trip home with empty tanks it tracked fine. With full gear, there will be more tongue weight. After we weigh it with camping equipment, I will report all the weights.

Thanks especially to Ron for the help. RV.net folks are all gracious and helpful.

Congratulations! Enjoy your new camper!
Crespro
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
Great discussion on tongue weight. I appreciate all the expertise.

Report on the travel trailer -- we bought a 2006 Wildwood 23BH2L. It is 27'6" from the back bumper to the hitch and has two slides.

I think that it will be about 6,400# at camping weight and we plan for a tongue weight of about 830#. This should be comfortably within the GCVR, the GVWR, the tow capacity, the tongue weight, the rear axle weight, the GVWR of the trailer and we hope for a 13% tongue weight. I have six washers on the Equalizer, but may reduce that to five after we have it weighed at the CAT scale with full gear.

On the trip home with empty tanks it tracked fine. With full gear, there will be more tongue weight. After we weigh it with camping equipment, I will report all the weights.

Thanks especially to Ron for the help. RV.net folks are all gracious and helpful.
RobertRyan
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
brulaz wrote:
My wife (who grew up in Germany) refers to European caravans as "turtles" because they were always so slow on the highways when she was growing up. Maybe that was their solution?

No they had mechanical friction control. 'Turtles": yes they were restricted to 56mph, add in thousands of others and it became a slow journey.
Friction Sway Control

Current British Anti-snaking device
brulaz
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
RobertRyan wrote:

They have anti-sway control systems.

But the electronic anti-sway systems are fairly new. What did they do before?

My wife (who grew up in Germany) refers to European caravans as "turtles" because they were always so slow on the highways when she was growing up. Maybe that was their solution?
RobertRyan
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
Seattle Lion wrote:
You remind me of something that has been bothering me for a while: what people did here (and still do in Europe) when light trucks were not commonly owned. There is a 1954 movie, The Long Long Trailer starring Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz about a couple who buy a TT (40 ft they said) and took it on tour. The interiors were obviously taken in a studio, but they had a real trailer for the exterior shots. The TV was a car! In the movie, a dealer sold Desi a dolly that went under the trailer's ball that apparently took the weight off the TV, which clearly had no chance of carrying the trailer.

I suspect that in Europe by providing virtually no tongue weight, they make it possible to tow some sort of RV with those tiny cars. I guess in that case, all the owner has to worry about is the actual ability of the TV to pull the trailer. Ya gotta wonder about stability. Based on watching Top Gear on BBC America, Caravans (as they call TT's there) are very small and TV's move very slowly. I can't begin to imagine how the TV has any serious control of the TT.

You got a few things wrong
No they do not move that slowly. Europe in general 60mph is the limited speed. Now in the UK this has gone up too 82mph. On unlimited roads like an autobahn ANY speed can be done.

Stability control systems limit sway on the Caravans.

Top Gear is satirising the conjested roads in the European summers when thousands of holidaymakers are on the road and the speed limit is 60mph on freeways.

Diesel Cars are used by about 95% of Holidaymakers the Caravans are very.light coming in at about 4000lbs GVWR
RobertRyan
Explorer
Jan 23, 2014
Brulaz wrote:
On the other hand, European trailers look to have very low tongue weights; the ones I've seen place the axles almost in the middle of the trailer, and WDH's are unheard of over there. Not sure how they engineer their trailers to reduce sway, but they all do seem very close to the ground, maybe that's one approach

They have anti-sway control systems. WDH is funnily enough a debatable issue in Australia.
A Poll on WDH Caravanners Forum.
Seattle_Lion
Explorer
Jan 22, 2014
brulaz wrote:

On the other hand, European trailers look to have very low tongue weights; the ones I've seen place the axles almost in the middle of the trailer, and WDH's are unheard of over there. Not sure how they engineer their trailers to reduce sway, but they all do seem very close to the ground, maybe that's one approach. I would think they have to be doing something ...

You remind me of something that has been bothering me for a while: what people did here (and still do in Europe) when light trucks were not commonly owned. There is a 1954 movie, The Long Long Trailer starring Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz about a couple who buy a TT (40 ft they said) and took it on tour. The interiors were obviously taken in a studio, but they had a real trailer for the exterior shots. The TV was a car! In the movie, a dealer sold Desi a dolly that went under the trailer's ball that apparently took the weight off the TV, which clearly had no chance of carrying the trailer.

I suspect that in Europe by providing virtually no tongue weight, they make it possible to tow some sort of RV with those tiny cars. I guess in that case, all the owner has to worry about is the actual ability of the TV to pull the trailer. Ya gotta wonder about stability. Based on watching Top Gear on BBC America, Caravans (as they call TT's there) are very small and TV's move very slowly. I can't begin to imagine how the TV has any serious control of the TT.
brulaz
Explorer
Jan 22, 2014
waynec1957 wrote:

...
I agree with you on the tongue weights as far as what I would be comfortable with using a WDH. I don't necessarily think these lighter tongue weights make the trailers more stable during towing, but if I pull one off the lot, empty and brand new, hitched up to a draw bar and ball I would think it would have to be stable to some extent. Otherwise there would be a serious flaw in the design.

The "Hot-shot" trucks I've seen delivering trailers without sway control have all been pretty heavy duty, 3/4, 1 ton, some dualies. If the trailer wags on these, they probably wouldn't notice.

But yes, my guess would be that a trailer that is properly balanced from side-to-side, would require less frontal tongue weight to maintain stability.

It's just that I'm not convinced that low advertised dry tongue weights imply that the manufacturer has consciously designed the trailer to be stable at those low tongue weights. "By guess and by golly" seems more likely to me.

On the other hand, European trailers look to have very low tongue weights; the ones I've seen place the axles almost in the middle of the trailer, and WDH's are unheard of over there. Not sure how they engineer their trailers to reduce sway, but they all do seem very close to the ground, maybe that's one approach. I would think they have to be doing something ...

(apologies for the ramble)
waynec1957
Explorer
Jan 22, 2014
brulaz wrote:
waynec1957 wrote:

...
My thinking is (and I could be wrong) if a TT is designed with a certain unloaded weight distribution (certain TW) to make it stable during towing, that should be the numbers I use when it’s fully loaded (should it not?). For instance a TT designed with a dry weight of 7,000 lbs and a dry tongue weight of 700 lbs, when loaded to (for instance) 8,500 should have a TW of 850 lbs.
...

I suspect that, as you mentioned earlier, lower trailer tongue weights are solely to make the trailer "half-ton towable". I do not think that lower tongue weights can in any way make the trailer more stable in towing.

You have a much more positive attitude about travel trailer manufacturers than I do.

Although 10% might be sufficient for a low side trailer, I would never go below 12% and prefer 13-15% for a loaded travel trailer, no matter what the dry weight percentages are.

I agree with you on the tongue weights as far as what I would be comfortable with using a WDH. I don't necessarily think these lighter tongue weights make the trailers more stable during towing, but if I pull one off the lot, empty and brand new, hitched up to a draw bar and ball I would think it would have to be stable to some extent. Otherwise there would be a serious flaw in the design.
waynec1957
Explorer
Jan 22, 2014
Seattle Lion wrote:
If you assume that you load your trailer evenly, with all the weight equally distributed front-to-back, then the tongue weight percentage should be the same as for the dry trailer.

This is something I'm beginning to wonder about.

What got me to thinking about this is my neighbor at our seasonal sight pulls TTs out of the factories in northern Indiana and he doesn't even own a WD/anti-sway hitch. He just slides the draw bar in, hooks to the ball, and off he goes. Last year he towed over 100k miles. I'm sure some TTs tow better than others, but straight from the factory they must be balanced fairly well.